Why does she do this?

Discussion in 'Does She Like Me?' started by Nelly, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. Nelly

    Nelly Active Member

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    Okay,

    I have a friend, I met her 3 years ago through mutual gay group of friends. She was in long-term relationships with her girlfriend for almost 10 years by that time.

    Earlier this year, they had some crisis in their relationships, I didnt know what exactly was the cause, but at the mutual gatherings during that crisis she suddenly started more touchy feely with me and somewhat flirtatious. Like stroking my hair, long long long hugs accompanying by long meaningful conversations between us. Things that I noticed she only did with me among our mutual group of friends. It formed and emotional bond within me and I started to fancy her, because I started thinking that I am getting the vibe from her too. And it was not only me who felt that, a couple of my friends also noticed that she might pay special attention to me and wants to be physically close to me and there might be some feeling be involved. Some time before that she started copying my style or my habits like jogging, when I asked why - she says that she didnt know why. She also doesnt like to reflect on her feelings much, as I understand.

    Okay, I went away for a trip being almost sure that she might like me and that they might break up with her gf. All excited about this. When I get back I meet with her and ask her what has happened between them (just to check), it turned out her gf fell in love for another girl but decided to stay because she loved her partner more, and that was the case of their crisis but they agreed to work on it and stay together. And my friend told me that she didnt fall for anyone unlike her gf. So that meant that it was nothing between us. I probably overreacted, being hypersensitive person I am and thinking that something might be going on.

    I get upset, but move on, we continue to be friends, me liking her and her staying in her relationship.
    But whenever we meet I still keep getting the vibe from her, her elevated attention, physical contact etc.

    For example, I delete her from my Instagram feed, in order not too dwell on her too much, and vaguely explain it too her, after that she turns her account from private to public. So I could still see her posts? Why would she do this only for 1 person?
    Or we meet at art exhibition of our mutual friend, I show up with a friend who she has never seen before, and I see how she reacts on her. Not friendly and relaxed, but rather alarmed. As my new friend might be some kind of threat to her. My friend also noticed excessive amount of flirting from her to my direction. And I get really anxoius about that, because she is in relationships and I dont know what does it mean so I decided to confront her. It was when she took my phone while I was in another room and took around 17 selfies of herself being all seductive (you know how girls make selfies) to my phone.

    That was a bit too much. I started to feel like she is teasing me while being with her gf. I texted her that night: Why do you leave selfies like that on my phone? I start to question why are you doing this and it is confusing me. And also crosses my boundries. Could it be that you compensate something with me that you lack in your current relationship? - She said she doesnt know why, but surprised and upset that I took it that way. She doesnt want to think about this unlucky situation but is sorry that she crossed the boundries and wont do it again.

    After that we didnt see each other almost for a month. When we finally met (on my behalf) we were on a friendly matter though she seemed a bit anxious.

    Week after that (a couple of days ago) they(what a surprise) broke up with her gf and she said that it was sort of mutual and finally they did it.

    Secretly I got excited, hoping that finally I have a chance (though I never requited my feelings to her).
    We agreed to meet and hang out just two of us. I was hoping to taste the water and see how it might progress from that. But in the end it was 3 of us. Me, her and another friend and it was a disaster.

    They would talk about how she is needing to make a photo for her Tinder profile, how she already liked some girl. How another girl tried to approach her. I got so upset, because talks like that might clearly indicate that she doesnt include me in that picture and I am being clearly friendzoned. So I got all defensive and also started talking about my attempts to get together with other girls.

    So wtf is this? She doesnt like me? Not a chance for me? Did I scare her off with my confronting her and she thought that I rejected her? Or she never liked me in the first place.

    Is it my fault and I ruined it?
    What do you think?
     
    #1
  2. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

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    It is not your fault at all and you did everything right. Sometimes people who get cheated on do take on a lot of damage. I am going to be kind and assume that she is acting that way because she is just too hurt from it. You are good person and she could see that and hung onto you like a floatation device for her self esteem. I am sorry she did that to you with no intentions of being with you.

    I don't know you but I am proud of the way you'd set clear boundaries when she crossed a line. Kudos to you! I would stay away from her because she is just not right in the head from the breakup and she is manipulative.
     
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  3. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    I agree with @greylin but I will add: Was the 3rd wheel a good friend of hers? Perhaps she's just talking the talk as admitting to her friend that "something" has been going on with you would suggest an overlap with her gf. Proceed with caution, talk with this girl just you and her and see how she is with you with no one else there. If she is still all tindery etc leave her a lone and move on.
     
    #3
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  4. Nelly

    Nelly Active Member

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    @greylin @Nancy
    Hey guys, thank you for reply. Very appreciate it.
    The 3d wheel is our mutual friend, who might probably set the course of the conversation. Later that night I was chatting with her till 7am as she also couldnt sleep, it all went well until she mentions that she bought a ticket to a music fest the same day as my birthday, and that she probably will go there later at night anyway, also because she could "meet" someone there.

    But I get the idea that she might think that I have someone, but she doesnt ask it directly. I mentioned a friend who I invite to my birthday party that she doesnt know - the first thing she asked was if it was my girfriend. I just said - No.
    And earlier I might also gave an impression that I am involved with someone, as I was a bit shady. But I mean, she can just ask, right?


    Oh yeah, and that flirty vibe from her occurred a long before their relationship crisis began. Like 6 months beforehand. Actually my friend mentioned it to me/ and to her partner ((awkward, because he didnt know it was her gf))watching how we interact from the distance - he said "there`s something might be going . I sense some feelings involved.".
     
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    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  5. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes if you want straight answers from someone you have to give them too. Saying she can always ask is where you'll run yourself ragged. If you don't say I'm single and you think she thinks you're not but she could just ask-that's the problem.
     
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  6. Nelly

    Nelly Active Member

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    @Nancy
    You`re right. Probably we`re both on our defence lines. Or she just doesn`t care,
    Did I mention her ex went right back to that girl she fell for in the first place? Seems a bit ugly, even if the break up was mutual. But still they`re constantly texting each other.
     
    #6
  7. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    I expected the ex to be with the girl from the previous fling (maybe I've watched too much tv). Must be weird to end a long relationship and then going cold turkey on the contact front. I imagine that the amount of contact would die down over time if things stay nice and healthy. Just don't rush things, say you're available but also know that she will be in a weird place too. Whether a break up is inevitable or a complete surprise it's still a major adjustment.
     
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  8. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, you didn't ruin anything because there was nothing to ruin. She's coming off a 10 year relationship and being cheated on, having a messy break up. She's in no shape to date anyone, or for anything more serious than some hook ups. You "bonded" with her and "fancied" her. So you two are totally mismatched in what you want/ need / are capable of atm.

    So you didn't ruin anything. There are no magic words you could say (or not say) to change the weight of her circumstances- the end of a 10 year relationship.

    As for why she behaves this way...

    Different people view sex, love, hook ups and relationships differently. Some people are pretty egalitarian- they want to date someone in an equal, mutual, supportive relationships. Other people are self centered or exploitative. They want certain things and don't really care what that does to the other person or what it takes to get that.

    Of course, people aren't black and white, so it's more likely that someone is mostly egalitarian but occasionally a little selfish, or can be selfish but has limits (no stealing, no coerced sex, etc...)

    It sounds like her interest in you was mostly exploitative. Maybe she wanted something with you as a way to get revenge on her gf. "Cheat on me, fine, I will cheat on you." Maybe she wanted a little flirtation to boost her ego "I am still sexy and desirable, even if my gf doesn't see it." Maybe she and her gf hadn't had sex in a long time and she was desperate and seriously blue balled.

    You see, just because someone flirts with you, doesn't mean that they like you, respect you or want anything more than flirtation. People are happy to use each other- for sex, for ego trips, as a way to create drama they crave, as a way to hurt other people, etc...

    She may not be a horrible person, but she is clearly behaving horribly to you. Toying with you, pushing your boundaries and then turning on you.

    You are well better off without her. You didn't 'ruin' anything, but you certainly dodged a bullet.
     
    #8
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  9. Nelly

    Nelly Active Member

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    @Bluenote
    You drew quite vicious picture. Sure we`re all selfish. But there is a big chance that she might do this subconsciously, not realising it. So when you confront them they are really surprised and upset about that.

    She doesn`t seem vicious to me, more like clueless. I don`t know. You can never tell what she really feels, because she always so "high spirited and cheerful".

    But I sure realise that her post-break up behaviour and that she doesnt goes out of way to be in contact with me or keep low with all this tinder bullshit - might indicate, that she really less likely sees me as potential partner. And this upsets me.
     
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  10. lorienczhiu

    lorienczhiu Well-Known Member

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    Do you want to date a person who hurts you completely by mistake? Who is subconsciously manipulative and exploitative? Who is so effective at performing "high spirited and cheerful" that she does not accurately or honestly communicate her feelings?

    I believe that most people do not act out of malice; it's one of those things that keeps me moving forward and feeling generally positive about humanity. BUT it would be stupid to pretend that acting out of malice is the only way to harm people. I have know people who - out of genuine messed-up-ness, who had rough times and mental health troubles and complicated pasts and bad breakups- have hurt my friends through really wild carelessness, emotional manipulation, abusive coercion. These people - these careless, harmful, abusive people - do this subconsciously. They do not wake up and say, "I will harm my friends/romantic partners today. I will attach, woo, and then go cold to confuse them. I will make sure that whenever they try to express a boundary, I assert my emotion needs as more important and central to our relationship. That'll show them!" People are not cartoon villains; they are bumbling anti-heroes trying hard with an imperfect interpersonal arsenal, who mess up a lot and aren't great at understanding their own impulses and motivations.

    Which is all to say, I think that the intention you are looking for is not necessary for @Bluenote's advice to be good advice. She does not have to plot in a British accent to use you to make her feel better, to get back at her ex, to be frustrated by her situation and want to feel desired and in control. She doesn't have to do those things out of cold malice for them to harm you. She can be surprised that her actions affect you this way and still be a bad potential partner for you, perhaps precisely because of that surprise.

    And the fact is - this is a person who flirted and seduced you while frustrated with her relationship-in-crisis. Who used that flirtation, on purpose or not, to express her feelings and test the waters of what it might be like to end her partnership of 10 years. Who trampled on your boundaries in order to carry out this flirtation, and adapted when you tried to enforce those boundaries. Who, when confronted about her behavior, went silent rather than say "Yeah, things are fucked up right now and I'm sorry that I am sending mixed signals. I value your friendship and boundaries and am backing off until my house is in order." Who still has not been clear about her interest in you or her motivation through this ongoing, bizarre, boundary-trampling flirtation, even now that her relationship is over.

    All of this might be addressable in a relationship; people can suck at communication and respecting boundaries, and decide to get better at it. But the fact remains that so far, you do not have evidence that she (a) wants to be in a relationship with you, (b) is particularly interested in being honest or straightforward with you, or (c) is adept at clearly communicating her desires and needs with you. Whatever mutual attraction is there, that communication mismatch is fundamental and will ultimately matter if what you want is more than a few hookups.

    You didn't do anything wrong, but this woman is (again, being as kind as possible) not in a great place and not behaving very well as a result; whatever her awareness and motivation for that behavior, you still have to be honest and critical about how it affects you.
     
    #10
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  11. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    I don't doubt that her behavior may be partly subconscious. She may well have flirted with you, without being self aware that she was just looking for an ego stroke, etc... Hence why I said 'she isn't a horrible person, but she is treating you horribly.'

    Being run over by a car that innocently just didn't see you, doesn't make you any less dead than being run over by a drunk driver.

    Same here - being jerked around subconsciously, isn't less of a jerking around than had it been done consciously.

    She may not have been aware of why she was flirting with you/ pushing your buttons so hard. But she clearly was aware of what she was doing when she talked about tindering in front of you. That was as subtle as a kick to the lady parts. One would have to be clueless to the point of having Aspergers* to not realize 'talking about tindering in front of this girl is a big neon I am passive aggressively blowing her off move.'

    At best, the tinder thing was intentional game playing. At worst, the whole thing has been intentional game playing.

    Getting involved with someone who just went through a messy ltr breakup is risky at best. Getting involved with someone who just went through a messy ltr breakup and is playing games with you- even just a little- is a really, really bad idea.

    Stay away from her romantically. Maybe some day later she will be in a better headspace, but right now she she clearly isn't ready for anything serious.

    *my sister is Aspy, so I am not anti-Aspergers, or trying to be derogatory to people with Aspergers or Autism.
     
    #11
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
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  12. Nelly

    Nelly Active Member

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    @Bluenote @lorienczhiu I don`t see how it is passive-agressive kick in the nut, as I have never told her that I liked her. I just asked her not to cross the boundaries as it gets confusing. As a friend. A person may have the right to not give the answers (which is upsetting, yes) but the least they can do is to respect your request. Which she did and apologised. Also after that I got distant and blew her offers to hangout off a couple of times implying that I am busy and with someone else. So she probably still thinks that I am with someone else as every time I may mention a girl name she doesn1t know - she asks Who is it? And whether it is my gf?
     
    #12
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  13. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure why you are defending her so much. It's clear there was sexual tension between you two. So making a big point of talking about her tindering in front of you was either a passive aggressive blow off, or a passive aggressive 'see, I can find someone better.' If she saw you as just a friend, she'd talk to you about the tinder stuff too. What she did was weird theater in front of you.

    Defend her if you want, date her if you want. But you've been forwarned about her.
     
    #13
  14. Spygirl

    Spygirl Well-Known Member

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    Ok:
    1. She became flirtatious with you when she was in a relationship....albeit a bad one. That's not cool -- her relationship should have been resolved.
    2. You never told her how you felt -- you just secretly pined for her and left it unspoken. Hoping and hoping and hoping that magically she'd reveal her intense feelings for you.

    Your problem is communication, clearly. You haven't told her how you felt, yet you expect her to act differently. At the same time, you can't expect her to be mind reader and assume anything about your friendship. If you really want to know whether you have a chance, then talk to her. Simple as that.

    With those instructions, though, her actions tell me that she's a game player. Some of what she is doing really IS passive aggressive but you're too busy defending her to see it. Open your eyes and really think about whether you want to be in a relationship with someone who, while still in a relationship, was overtly flirtatious with you. If it happened once, it can happen again.
     
    #14
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  15. Nelly

    Nelly Active Member

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    @Spygirl I agree, the communication is bad and unsatisfying. So probably it will not work out. As we don`t read each other minds.
    I was disappointed with Tinder talks, she was probably upset with something else earlier.
    I was defensive from being hurt while she was still in relationships and pulled away.
    She might think that I am not interested and taken, and also is hurt from the break up.

    But yes, it is bad. And not functional.
     
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  16. Canuck8881

    Canuck8881 Well-Known Member

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    Wow!! You are taking a lot of criticism and you haven't done anything wrong. I think people should leave their own baggage out of it when they comment and be more positive. Tell her you like her. Be careful how you proceed regardless of her reaction because she is newly out of a long relationship. That doesn't mean it can't work or will work. Just be honest and open and see where it goes. The only person allowed to judge you is you.
     
    #16
  17. Nelly

    Nelly Active Member

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    @Canuck8881 Thank you for your support. I needed that.
    Actually I have an update.
    She invited me to go to the theatre together. So we did, it was yesterday.
    At one point I told her that I started to feel a little anxious in a crowded place so she began to massage my neck to relax me but while doing it she point it out: "Just in case I am not hitting on you." I thought "Wow, what was that."
    So after the show I decided to ask and reveal myself carefully.
    So I begin with: So how are you? Are you seeing anyone? Tinder and all?
    She said no, she`s not, and she is just chatting up in Tinder, nothing more
    Me: So what was that about you pointing out about not hitting on me, are you afraid that I might think that?
    Her: Yes
    Me: Why? Is it about that selfie talk between us earlier
    Her: Yes
    Me: Okay, than I need to sort it out what I meant back then. I was not opposed of the idea of you flirting with me in general, but I was troubled with you might be doing it while still being in relationships.
    Her: Yeah, but I was just playing around
    Me: So what was that? I mean, do you see me as a friend only?
    Her: I don`t know. Yes, as a friend.
    Me: So you don`t know or as a friend. I need to sort this out in order not to dwell on it.
    Her: Yeas, it is all friendly, don`t worry.

    So that was it. After that we hang out 2 hours more. I also mentioned that I am planning a trip and going to have a gig in another city. She said: Cool, so something might happen there. (Meaning I might get with someone).

    So yeah.

    What do you think?
     
    #17
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  18. Narley

    Narley Well-Known Member

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    I think when she said "yeah as a friend don't worry" that might have been a good time to explain to her that it wasn't a worry for you and maybe come clean with her that you actually find her attractive and are unsure of her feelings. Or maybe I read it wrong? Good luck anyways :)
     
    #18
  19. Nelly

    Nelly Active Member

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    @Narley

    My intention was to let her know, that if she would to "hit on me" or flirt - I wouldn`t mind, because she clearly thinks otherwise. It is the most I can do right now. Or ever.
    I am not sure if I succeeded, because I feel rejected and a bit loserish. And not sure if she got the message at all.
     
    #19
  20. SyncSA

    SyncSA New Member

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    Don't underestimate the power of the subconscious actually being conscious for some people. Dependency on attention is a big thing these days.

    Good Luck with your gig!
     
    #20

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