Vengence bit me in the A*s

Discussion in 'General Advice' started by the B in LGBT, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. the B in LGBT

    the B in LGBT Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    26
    I'm bisexual. Let the boos and hisses begin. Done yet? Ok. This is about a woman but you need some background first.

    I met a man I'll call Dick. I'll spare you the details and only tell you that all I was looking for was something unattached and he was game. After a few months, Dick wanted more and I stopped seeing him because like I said, I wasn't looking for anything serious and we had little else in common. At first he called and text quite a bit but after ignoring him for a while he stopped. A little while later, I go out with friends and he's there drunk. He says some pretty nasty things to me, which seemed out of character but he was drunk. Soon after he began his tirade, a woman came up to us and told me to stop talking to her man (I had no idea he was in a relationship). He drunkenly tells her that I was the reason he was unfaithful and she slaps me. I came close to hitting her but I would have hurt her badly so I tried to push past her to leave. Dick took my movement as aggression and he grabbed me hard. As I write this now I don't think he was trying to hurt me but I was scared and pissed at the time and I ended up breaking his nose. I also ended up in handcuffs but the police let me go without formally arresting me and no charges were brought.

    What I did next wasn't because he had a girlfriend but because I was embarrassed (I frequented that place) and I could have been arrested for real which would have given me a record (is that how it works?) and/or lost my job. Since I am a vindictive, petty, grudge holding bitch (I'm working on this but shit is hard) when I'm screwed over or hurt, I began to plot ways of exacting revenge that wouldn't get me arrested or cost me my job. I started texting him at first in an attempt to draw him back in but it grossed me out so much that I abandoned that. Then I thought, try Facebook to see what you can find on the girlfriend. He was really hard to find but when I did find him, I discovered that he was married (6 years) and not to the girl who tried to fight me. Then I had the bright idea to befriend his wife so I could blow up his whole world. I told you I'm a work in progress. I friend requested her using my middle name (Dick doesn't know my middle name) and began messaging her based on commonalities.

    I liked her instantly and made the decision to not hurt her because I thought she was a good person who didn't deserve what I had in store. Facebook quickly spilled over into real life and before I knew it we were hanging out socially. I asked her about Dick pretty early on and she said they'd been together since high school and she loved him dearly. They live pretty separate lives because they have diverging interests but what they have really works for the both of them and keeps their marriage strong. Ok...whatever you say. In the beginning she wanted me to meet Dick by asking me to various functions but I dodged that bullet by telling her I had social anxiety. This wasn't entirely untrue as I did have it pretty badly when I was younger and I struggle with it still from time to time.

    One night we're out and I realize I'm attracted to her and on a whim I kiss her. She knows I'm bi and as far as I knew up to that point, she was straight but she kissed me back and we ended up having a very handsy make out session. It was very awkward afterward but we did end up talking about it the next day, actually she did most of the talking. She said, in earnest, that she enjoyed the kiss but she was married and that wasn't who she wanted to be (a cheater) so it couldn't happen again especially since she valued our friendship so much. I could see the guilt on her face so I made up my mind that it wouldn't happen again except it did. It got to the point where if we were hanging out alone, it was a given.

    When she's not around I physically ache for her. She is everything that I'm not and makes me want to be a better person as cliche as that sounds. When she brings her other friends around I feel tinges of jealousy which is uncharacteristic of me. When we're alone I want more of her. I want her to talk more, smile more, laugh more, etc. She's just the best thing I've ever encountered in my life.

    Up until I met her, I'd always been upfront with what I want and how I want it and I not only show it with words but I back it up with actions. I'm also a very sexual person and I hadn't gone very long without sex but since we first kissed which was 3 months ago, I have been ok with abstaining because I know that's all she can give me. With her and this situation I'm all twisted. As you've already deduced I am in love with her but I don't have a right to be and I can't say anything because of the situation. She will hate me and doubt herself which I don't want because this is all my fault. I'm the one who has been lying to her since day one. I'm the one who slept with her husband even though I didn't know it at the time. I'm the one who created this entire "friendship" under false pretenses. She has nothing to blame herself for and every right to hate me but I still can't bring myself to tell her the truth so instead I told her I needed space with no definite timeline.

    You have no idea how much that hurt or maybe you do...I don't know. The reasons I gave were that work and familial situations were stressing me and I need to decompress. It wasn't entirely untrue as I do have a ton of work and family issues. I also added that I was feeling guilty about doing what we were doing (P.S. we haven't had sex). She said we could stop the extracurricular activities and she could just be my friend to be there for me while I worked through my stresses but I told her we both knew it wasn't going to stop; she didn't disagree. Just as an aside...I don't feel guilty about anything that happens to Dick or his feelings. I suppose I should but I'll say it before and I'll say it again...I'm a work in progress. I do feel extremely guilty about what I'm doing to her...the lying and the secrets.

    She knows about my lack of attachment in the past so I'm not sure if she understands or can feel how deep my feelings go for her and I certainly am not going to tell her. I don't even think she completely undersatnds how she feels but then again, I don't know because I haven't asked...I fear the answer. What makes all of this worse is I've never been in love before. I've never even had what could be called a serious relationship. So maybe its karma that I've fallen for the woman whose life I had every intention of blowing up? Maybe its karma that I've been crying while reading over (and over) the texts and emails sent between us and feeling desperately like I'll never feel this with anyone again?

    After a few days (5 to be exact), I started to get texts from her inquiring about how things were, telling me she was there if I needed her, etc. I didn't respond because I know what I would have said. Then came the sad emojis. A few days ago she text, "I miss you SO MUCH. Please talk to me." I didn't respond even though I desperately wanted to. The next day she came to visit but I didn't answer the intercom to buzz her in and thankfully no one was coming or going or else I would have been confronted with the decision not to answer the door when she came knocking.

    It's been almost 3 weeks since I last saw or spoke to her and it hurts just as bad...actually it's worse than it was the day I asked for space. I am absolutely miserable and it's all eating at me in a way that I can't describe.
     
    #1
  2. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,386
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    The advice I have is to suck it up and take your medicine like a woman. Cut the wife out of your life, learn your lessons and move on.

    I actually mean that in a compassionate, supportive way. Look, everyone screws up in life. And sometimes when you screw up all you can say is that the path back to non-screw-up-ville is not a lot of fun. Even though it feels bad, it is the right path and you stick to it.

    There is way too much drama here. Dick is... well... aptly named. He is sleeping with at least 3 women and probably more. (Head to clinic, get tested for stds).

    Trying to drag his wife into this was a mistake, which you realize now (so I am not going to belabor the point). But you can't go back on that now. If you try to still be friends with her (or make out buddies, or whatever) - the day of reckoning will come. You can't keep this all a secret forever and Dick will figure out that you are screwing around with his wife to get back at him. Dick may hurt you - physically, reputation wise, career wise - you name it.

    Plus, the wife will figure it out and be deeply hurt by the whole mess. You cheat with him, you cheat with her, you lie to everyone. She may hurt you - physically, reputation wise, career wise - you name it.

    And the wild card, one of Dick's side pieces may figure it out and tell Dick (or his wife) just to hurt you. You have already had one of his other gf's attack you.

    Basically continuing anything with the wife (if we call Dick, well, Dick then shouldn't we call the wife Pussy?) is like walking around with a very big time bomb in your pocket. You don't know when it will go off, but when it does - it is going to be really messy and people are going to get really, really hurt.

    So you have to do what anyone should do when confronted with a minefield. Get as far and fast away as you can and never go back there. Don't kid yourself that you will somehow get lucky and the mine will never go off - because someday, it will.

    A woman who makes out with you behind her (sketchy, separate lives) husband - is not the best thing that has happened in your life. And she is not making you a better person if she is keeping you in limbo - won't go further with you, won't let go of the husband, won't let you go. That is making you a dirty little secret, which, trust me, does not make people better people. It makes them confused. It makes them keep lies. It makes them do things that they feel bad about. Or do things that they don't feel bad about - but know they should feel bad about. None of that makes you a better person. It makes you feel low and guilty and like you deserve a big slap from karma.

    Granted, you may be a better person with her than you were with Dick. But that is setting the bar pretty low. And you weren't being the best person you could be with her - what with all the sneaking and lying.

    You are not in love with her. You haven't had anything close to an honest enough, or connected enough relationship to truly know her and love her. I get that you think she is great, the one that got away, etc... But she is not. I get that you miss her horribly. I get that you are super infatuated with her. Things feel so intense with her because 1) you can't have her 2) there is a lot of drama 3) you already were stirred up when you met her because of Dick. This kind of emotional intensity creates a 'high' - not that dissimilar from using drugs. But just like using drugs, it is a false high that can't be maintained and wears off. There is even a name for it - something along the lines of traumatic bonding. When the intensity of the the trauma surrounding the relationship (in this case all the drama and lies and guilt) wears off, the 'high' of the relationship wears off.

    IF she were to leave Dick (which she won't) and you could have her, no lies, no drama, no fear - the intensity would also wear off. And you would begin to see her flaws (we all have them). Trying to transition from an intense, trauma bonded relationship to a run of the mill one - is pretty hard to do. This is part of why some people jump from affair to affair. Or always seem to wind up with abusive / addicted partners.

    So you need to do what anyone who has been 'getting high' too much has to do. Detox. Get her out of your system. Cut off all contact. Tell her you need to do some serious work on yourself and you need tons of space - like years worth. Get rid of all her numbers, emails, email addresses, etc... Block her on fb. Try not to think about her. Take up something like running or other cardio exercise. Your cravings for her will pass eventually.

    Down the road a little you can look back at things and try to sort out how / how much you wind up in this kind of drama and what kind of changes you might want to make.

    Please don't take this as a lecture from a goodie two shoes, because it is not. I grew up in a really screwed up family. As an adult, I wound up in a series of not very healthy relationships (both friend and romantic types). I got help (tons of therapy) and learned how to identify and say no to 'trauma bonding' type relationships.

    Hang in there.
     
    #2
  3. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,089
    Likes Received:
    938
    Can't add much at all to the perfect advice above, just want you to know that no one here would think anything about you being bi or not. And I hope you don't attribute anything of this trouble to being bi. I think it is great you are here asking for help. Take care and hope you get things sorted out.
     
    #3
  4. Jane Doe

    Jane Doe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    30
    Greylin is right. The issue is not you being bi. It was your actions.

    What you are doing right now is a good thing. I know it wont be easy but you can do this. Dont give in because you will only go back to square 1. Distract yourself with other things. Hope all goes well for you.
     
    #4
    rainydaze likes this.
  5. the B in LGBT

    the B in LGBT Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    26
    I only made mention of my bisexuality in jest. There are a lot of people within our community that do not like bisexuals and have a lot of negative things to say (even on this site) so I was playing off that.

    I’ve taken some time to really think about what Blue Note said and I would tend to agree on everything except the idea that I’m not in love because this is just a passing thing. I think that conclusion was drawn prematurely without knowing my background or even me. I realize I might be sounding defensive and I am in a way but not because I want to feel the way that I do and I’m railing against what is being said but because it is how I genuinely feel and it’s hard for me to reconcile what else this feeling could be except what it is.

    My family is psychotic (literally and figuratively) and I’ve lived through hell with them. In my late teens I had a relationship that taught me to be cognizant of my feelings...what is real and what was manufactured which allowed me to not put my heart in my mind’s position. That said, I’ve caused my fair share of shit because I’m not quite grown up yet and when you grow up the way I did you have triggers. Mine happen to be centered around being mistreated. I’ve caused drama and wreaked havoc on people who have wronged me and though I know better the urge is far too strong which is why I'm in this position.

    Both of my parents cheated on one another repeatedly when I was growing up and I hated the drama that that caused so as a rule I’ve steered clear of people who are in relationships. When I kissed Pussy (as you’ve coined her), that notion or principle or whatever you want to call it went out the window. Granted there was liquor involved (I didn’t mention that before) but that doesn’t excuse my actions that night or any other night/day after that.

    I can’t speak to whether or not she would have left her husband for me and to be honest that wasn’t my main concern…being found out was. I never made it that far at least not consciously. I also don’t think she’s a bad person. I don’t think of myself as a bad person. I do bad things and I make big mistakes but overall I do right by those who do right by me. Up until I got “involved” with Pussy, I was upfront and honest, almost brutally so. She cheated with me but that doesn’t diminish who she is or what she’s taught me about myself and how to deal with my frustrations. She made me feel sane when I thought I was going insane especially when it came to my family. When I was being a shit she called me on it but didn’t leave it there. She walked me through it so that I understood why I was a shit and helped me through example to deal with my shit better. This has helped me tremendously with how I deal with people at work and other people including my boss have noticed. In some ways she was my therapist when I wasn’t in therapy. In fact, she encouraged me to take therapy more seriously which meant going more than once a month. Side note: my therapist moved a few months ago and the guy I was referred to annoys me so the search is on.

    All that was a roundabout way of saying I honestly do love her. Those aren’t words I take or use lightly and the fact that I feel it and can't share it is hard.

    She’s been texting me quite a bit over the last few days, wanting to talk. She says she’s miserable and just wants to sort through her feelings because she doesn’t understand where all of this is coming from. I’m not sure if “this” pertains to her feelings or my silence. I’ve continued to ignore her but it’s getting harder and harder to do so. I can’t say if seeing her will alleviate the pain I feel or make it worse but I know I can’t see her in the state I’m in.

    Thanks for being an ear or eyes at it were.
     
    #5
    Frazier likes this.
  6. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,386
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    You're right @the B in LGBT , there is no point really in me trying to tell you what love is. I mean, it is an esoteric subject, one which we could spend forever arguing. Kinda like "what is art?" A more useful discussion would be to frame things in a way that is practical. Forget "is it art?" and instead focus on "is it worth spending 53 million dollars on that painting of sunflowers?"

    So you are correct, I shouldn't sit here and try to tell you what is or is not love. And I apologize for trying to tell you what you feel.

    But I do think that you came here for some outside insight. And my insight is - try to frame the mess in your head into some practical questions - "is this a healthy relationship?" "Am I happy with the decisions that I make? With the way I act and react?" "Am I sabotaging my long term well being?" "How can I take better care of myself?" "Do I get into unhealthy patterns?" etc...

    I do not think that your relationship with Pussy (look, you just had to call her husband Dick) is a healthy one, or is healthy for you. For starters, it is built on a series of lies - you originally were using her as a pawn to get at Dick, she is cheating on her husband. For seconds, both of you are doing things that you don't want to do and don't feel good about (cheating, lying, setting limits and then breaking them.)

    More worrying - the boundaries are all over the place. She is like your therapist / emotional affair / bff / make out buddy. And while she probably does not intend to hurt you, that is an unhealthy combination. You need support right now - family issues, trying to make better decisions about drinking, etc... But - you don't need the support to come with a big serving of guilt, secrecy and making out with a married woman. Things are rarely every all good or all bad. But if there is enough bad mixed in, you have to walk away. In this case the half therapist / half affair is a real toxic combination and you really need to get away from it.

    Your relationship with her is a time bomb waiting to go off. Her being your lover / therapist would just make the explosion that much bigger and that much more damaging. (I had a half therapist / half lover thing once, oh when it blew up it was a massive mind fucking disaster.)

    You can get the good - therapy type insights - in relationships that don't have the toxic bad and volatile instability. Find a decent therapist, read self help books, post on ae, talk to good friends, join a support group for family members of the mentally ill, etc...

    I don't think that it is in your best interests to get together with her and try to sort out her feelings (or yours, or any one's). For starters, you can't be 100% honest with her (hey, originally, I was going to use you...). For seconds - she knows deep down why you have broken things off - because you don't want an intense emotional affair thing with a married woman. Because it's a mess, because it's just a matter of time before you two actually have sex, etc...

    I am sure there is emotional fall out for her - but she needs to sort that out herself, not rely on you for that. If this has made her realize that her marriage with Dick isn't working, if she is knocked sideways by how much she feels for you - that is on her to sort out. You can't be her half therapist / half trying to break it off with her gf thing. You need to get out of this situation and she has no right to try and drag you back into it. I don't think that she is a bad person, or trying to hurt you - but I think that she is hurting you (and herself).

    I don't think that it is good for you to be sitting there getting all these texts, etc... from her. I really do think you kinda need a detox from her. Block her numbers and her emails. Block her fb.

    Look for a therapist. Do a lot of cardio. Try to avoid family stress as much as possible. Try to spend time with friends who care about you, the kind who are laid back and drama free. And then do some more cardio.

    Hang in there.
     
    #6
    rainydaze and rac like this.
  7. the B in LGBT

    the B in LGBT Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    26
    She stopped trying to get in touch a few days after my last post, and when she did, I was hurt all over again which is probably why I should have blocked her, right? Thursday night, I got an email that I’ve read at least 100 times. I need some objectivity before doing anything even if it means doing nothing at all. Read the email (I've copied and pasted it below; names have been changed) and you'll see why I'm feeling so fucked.

    Time to be honest. I tried to rationalize everything we did to keep myself in that deep denial. You and I weren't more than friends so the kissing and everything else didn't mean anything. It's time to woman up. I’m in love with you and I have been for a while.

    I tried to eat everything like I had before but it was too big to deny. You and I didn’t have a relationship but what we did have changed me. I’ve never felt so comfortable to be 100% me. It’s never been so easy to have intense conversations and feel safe to express opinions without feeling small. I laugh so much with you. I can be hurt and angry and still feel like what I feel and want matters. I miss kissing you. I miss touching you. I miss how your voice crackles when you’re tired. I miss how your eyes glow when you're excited. I don’t know if soul mates exist but every part of me is telling me that you are where I’m supposed to be. I want to take you on a real date where I can look at you and hold your hand in all the ways I wouldn’t allow myself to before.

    From the outside I might look like a thirsty dissatisfied woman looking for a reason to escape an unhappy marriage. I wouldn’t blame you if you thought that way. I had to question that myself. Yes meeting you made it clear to me that Dick and I were over but what I feel for you isn’t a whim. What I feel is so intense that it occupies almost everything. I want to make you happier than you’ve made me. I want to be there for you and help tether you to the world when things get crazy. I want to make you laugh like a hyena in heat. I want to make you lasagna and watch you rub your belly because you ate too much. I want the absolute best for you and I'd like to be there to witness and support you whenever and however you need. I want a real beginning with you if you'll have me.

    You're probably wondering how I could wish for all of that and still be married. I left Dick 2 weeks ago and moved to midtown. It hurt me to hurt him because he isn't a bad man but I don't love him and that isn't because of you. I spent all of my energy trying to make everything seem great when everything between him and me had been running on empty for the last 3 - 4 years. My feelings for you were the final straw but not the reason. If it hadn't been you it would have been something else. I need you to know that.


    I try to tell myself all the time we won't ever be because you aren't like that and you don't feel anything for me like that but I haven't been able to let it go. I don't know what you feel. I'm pretty sure you felt something too but I don't know if it was more than kissing and groping. Am I pouring out my heart to someone who only saw me as a casual friend? If that's true then at least I stopped lying to myself, to you and to everyone else. I said what I feel and if you don’t or never felt anything I can respect that and close this chapter. If you do feel or could feel something maybe we can talk? My number and email haven’t changed. I would do absolutely anything you need me to but you hold the control. This will be the last time I reach out to you. I can see how all of this is very intense and a lot to handle. I can also see how this can come off as stalker-ish. If I made you feel uncomfortable or complicated your life in any way, I am sincerely sorry. I'm also sorry for pulling you into my mess. You didn't deserve that and I can't take it back but I am so very sorry.

    If this is the last time I speak to you, thank you for being in my life and being a beautiful, amazing person. I am extremely lucky and happy to have known you.
     
    #7
  8. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,089
    Likes Received:
    938
    I am reading this again and I still would not know what I would have done when if I were to have gotten so far into the situation you got into. There were so many steps from the beginning to end that I would not have made. I am not saying I don't make bad choices, I do, just different types of bad choices. So, with this disclaimer, I think what I would have done from the get go was to come clean to Dick's now soon to be ex-wife when she started to really fall for me. I have considered carefully if it was a way to make me feel less guilt and it is not. I would want her to understand what her situation is, for starters and for her to get tested for std's. I would want her to know that I am not the person she fell in love with because she does not have all the pertinent information. I do not want her to stop trusting others, but maybe she needs to figure out why she would trust someone like Dick or me to begin with.

    I think that it is good that she went and made the decision on her own while you have cut her off. But after reading that, I would have gone to her to talk and come clean. I would also understand that may put me in physical peril when Dick finds out about me and his estranged wife. But perhaps even if I didn't, he just may still find out.

    Now that is just me. But I really worry about you getting entangled further with Dick and anywhere in his circle. I fear for your physical safety. And again, we are two different people. I can sit in my armchair and pretend to be you and be able to just go and talk to her and not get sucked into a relationship again. But she is doing everything to get you. I fear that if you try to talk to her, and if she would actually forgive what you had done, you maybe tempted to get into a relationship with her. She has broken up now, but divorce takes a while to finalize and the emotional fall out takes a while to disperse. It would not be good for her to jump into another relationship even if it does not have a muddy beginning.

    Edit: Also I would have to accept that she could get really angry and tell Dick and the two of them join forces to mess me over. I am not so sure about this but I think there are some states in the US where adultery is illegal, and I have vaguely heard of some mistress getting sued by the scorned wife. You can work on your own emotional life but it is a lot harder if you are broke from legal matters. I am saying this because Dick had already once gotten the police involved. I wouldn't put it past him to put you through whatever legal quagmire he can.
     
    #8
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
    mariannek2u likes this.
  9. rac

    rac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    251
    Here's my take... She does not sound like a bad person (I am only basing that on her letter and what you said about her.) I think you should tell her everything. You know perfectly well what's going on, what the consequences will be, and why it is bad for you, and her, not to walk away. She doesn't. I think you owe her that.

    I think you should tell her the truth, you need to fully come clean and let her decide if it is a big deal. Because sooner or later, she will find out. And the truth, no matter how she discovers it, will hurt her. But I think discovering the truth from other means will hurt more than hearing it from you. She was honest with you and writing that letter I'm sure took courage and strength. It's your turn now to tell her what really happened, what is happening. You had a hand in creating this situation you are in, you have to take responsibility for those actions. And if I am her, it will help to know the fault wasn't all mine.
     
    #9
    Jctoanwn, rainydaze, RLrose and 3 others like this.
  10. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,386
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    I had to think about this one. On reflection, my advice isn't any different than what I said above. Basically, ask yourself a bunch of questions - is this a good situation for you, is it healthy, is it likely to help you make better decisions or take better care of yourself?

    I understand the pull. She sounds like a very emotionally intense person and she wrote you this raw and passionate letter. It would be easy to run to that.

    BUT. There is another side. She has been with Dick since HS and now is separated from him. She is going to be going through a lot. Self reflection, divorce, probably learning some bad stuff about Dick (you just had to call him that). Trying to be involved with her through that is like jumping onto a bucking bronco on crack - you know going into it that you are in for a crazy, crazy ride.

    That is without even throwing in the wold card of you telling her about your history with Dick.

    She has already expressed wanting to get into something serious and intense with you. Two people, lots of baggage, lots of intensity - what could go wrong? I am not trying to be snarky, I am just trying to be honest.

    Honestly? 40-something me would not be attracted to that. I would find it overwhelming, combustible and intense. But younger me did have a couple of intense, combustible relationships. Maybe they were mistakes that I shouldn't have made. Maybe they were something that I needed to do, get burned from and get out of my system. I don't know.

    I do know that one, in particular, was so intense that it hurt me very badly. Not the good kind of 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger,' kind of hurt. The bad kind of hurt, that left me feeling much, much worse about myself as a person. It took a long, long time to heal from that.

    In retrospect - emotionally intense and unstable due to all the baggage is a bad combination. Personally, I would not go there. If you do, I hope that it winds up being the kind of mistake you needed to make and not the kind of mistake that blows up and hurts you horribly.
     
    #10
    rainydaze and greylin like this.
  11. Eloise

    Eloise Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    168
    I agree with everyone that you need to tell her everything from the beginning. But, not in person because things can go bad real fast. Write her an email and then sit on it over night. Read it then make changes. You want to make sure she knows your original intent was to get back at Dick but soon realized you liked her too much to hurt her so kept quiet. I bet she's having lots of guilt about ending her marriage because she thinks Dick is such a great guy. If she knew what a dick he was she would be pissed, sad and mad, but she would get over him a lot quicker.

    Let her know you feel the same about her that she does about you. Tell her your phone number is the same. Then wait for her to reach out. She may need some time to get past thinking your original intent was to hurt her. Allow her time to think things through.

    Good luck.
     
    #11
    RLrose and greylin like this.
  12. the B in LGBT

    the B in LGBT Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    26
    All of you are right about the need for honesty. I’ve known that since the minute she and I became “friends” but I’ve been too much of a chicken shit. I don’t connect to people easily on a deep level and never in a situation like this so I’ve been flopping about in protest of doing the right thing. Below is a draft of the email I plan to send. I’m having a hard time figuring out what to say and the order in which to say it so she understands that my feelings are genuine and I am truly sorry. I also don’t know how much information to provide.

    I received your email and as much as I am floored by it (in a good way), there are things you need to know; things that I’ve been dishonest about.

    First, I’ve met Dick before. He and I met before I met you at a party in 2014 and for a few months after that we had a no strings attached type situation. Initially he made it clear that he was not the settling down type because he feared commitment and liked to keep his options open. I believed him and to be brutally honest, I didn’t bother to ask many questions about him or his life because I had no intention of it ever being any more than a casual situation. His encounters with others were none of my concern as long as I stayed safe and I didn’t get dragged into any drama.

    I stopped seeing him because contrary to his initial statements, he wanted more and I didn’t. A few months after that, I ran into him. I tried to avoid him but he cornered me and there was a short drunken one sided conversation (I was sober) where he said some pretty nasty things to and about me. Ultimately he wanted it known that he was playing me because he already had a woman who was better than me in every way and he was glad he hadn’t left her for me. Shortly after his speech, I was accosted by his girlfriend who told me to leave her man alone. She too was tipsy and my need to diffuse and escape the situation to irritate her and in the end, she hit me and I hit him because of his desire to defend her against me despite the fact that she initiated the violence. Do you remember that broken nose you told me he got from a fall? I’m the one who broke his nose and I was held but not arrested/charged (he didn’t want to press charges). I was livid and embarrassed by the whole situation and you know I don’t make the best decisions when I’m angry/hurt. I set out to find a way to get back at him perhaps through the girlfriend or other means and I found you. In the interest of full disclosure, the goal was to exact my revenge on him by using you; something quick and dirty then I’d move on with my life.

    Crazy as it might sound, there was something about your short replies that made me abandon my plans. To this day I can’t pinpoint what it was but it happened very quickly and before I knew it we’d snowballed into a friendship.

    When I veered things in a different direction by kissing you, I knew I was making things worse…just adding another layer to an already seriously screwed up situation but I couldn’t resist you. Every time after that initial kiss I would have these little conversations in my head about the wrongness of my actions then I’d look at you and cave because I was falling for you too. That feeling was a first for me and as much as it scared me to feel it, it scared me even more to lose it and to lose you. You are right, I do know you and I knew once I told you the truth you would never trust me again. You would also want nothing to do with me and I couldn’t have that; I loved the way it felt to be with you too much.

    My feelings for and fear of losing you are not excuses for the lies I’ve told. I’m so very, very sorry for lying to you about me and Dick and everything I knew about him. I’m sorry for allowing you to develop feelings for me when I wasn’t completely authentic about who I am and what I’d done. I’m so sorry for not providing the truth so you could make informed decisions. There aren’t enough apologies that could be made to express how sorry I am. Please understand that I do not make these apologizes in search of forgiveness. I make them because I’m finally doing right by you, which I should have done from the very beginning. You deserve so much better than this mess I’ve created. Every lie, every omission, every deception and half-truth is on me. You are not to blame on any level for anything I did or for anything you did/didn’t do that got us here. I was childish for beginning things the way I did and selfish for continuing it without being honest.

    It might be impossible to believe but everything else was true. What we talked about, the things you know about me, every laugh and cry, and every late night were all true. The moments we had were the most present, intimate and engaged I’ve ever been with anyone. You became all I could think about and all I wanted and the closer I got to you the more I knew I had to stop seeing you. I thought if I just walked away you would be better off. I know that was the cowardly thing to do but I didn’t want to face having to do what I’m doing now.

    I don’t expect a response from you so I need to conclude this by telling you how I truly feel. I started us on false pretenses and I lied to cover that up. I also did some really shitty things but none of that negates the fact that I love you. You know I’ve never said that to another person before, not in any meaningful way. The fact that I love you is truer and purer than any feeling I’ve ever had and might ever have. I know lying to someone for over a year is inexcusable but that selfish part of me continued with the charade so that I could continue to feel that love for and with you. I just couldn’t let it go. The weeks leading up to my decision to stop communicating with you and all of the weeks since have been the most painful things I’ve ever experienced emotionally. You know that’s saying a lot given my family history. I never thought I had a heart to give to anyone but I did and I will regret hurting you and ruining what could have been for the rest of my life. Again, none of those are excuses, only truths to maybe help you understand why I didn’t tell the truth forever ago.

    I’m so truly, deeply sorry for not being true to you and your heart. If I could take all of it back please believe me when I say I would but I can’t. All I can do is apologize and hope that you heal from the damage I’ve caused. I’m sorry.
     
    #12
    rainydaze and greylin like this.
  13. Spygirl

    Spygirl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    1,049
    I really like the email and I think it captures everything about this situation. I also think that the email is very, very brave. I'm not sure that you could be this honest with her if you didn't love her...and part of me hopes that she sees that and eventually overcomes whatever negative feelings she might have.

    But, you're doing right by her...and in an sense, this is also cathartic for you. If nothing happens from this, then at least you can go to sleep at night knowing for once that you rose to the occasion and did the right thing. If something happens, well, then, you can proceed with honesty.
     
    #13
    rainydaze, greylin and rac like this.
  14. rac

    rac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    251
    I like it, too. I thought it was thoughtful and you conveyed everything you wanted to say.

    I hope she eventually forgives you and things turn out right. And by that, I don't necessarily mean you two end up together but you both find peace. I hope you update us whatever the outcome is. Or at least let us know you are doing fine.

    Goodluck.
     
    #14
    rainydaze, Spygirl and greylin like this.
  15. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,089
    Likes Received:
    938
    I don't like things in writing. This can be discovered by Dick and I don't know the laws but what if he could go ahead now and press charges. Sorry, you can do the right thing, but I actually think it is safer in person. The object is to let her know, not give Dick ammo, he is not right in the head given the last confrontation.

    Edit:
    Plus...let's say you send this to her. She reads it, calls him and forwards it to him. He reads it and deals with this mess with his divorce. This may or may not sit in his inbox for a while just brewing till he hits a lot of brew and decides to do something about it. If you have sent this, please be wary of your personal safety. He didn't press charges last time because he had a wife and he didn't want her to discover this. Now, he has nothing to lose. Please take care.
     
    #15
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
    rainydaze likes this.
  16. Spygirl

    Spygirl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    1,049
    I understand the caution here -- and as an attorney who's handled a fair share of domestic disputes, I don't disagree. Please ensure that you protect yourself...however, in terms of the divorce, I think it can be demonstrated that Dick does not have the upper hand with his antics. I am more concerned about you -- only send this if you trust the wife. If you don't trust her completely then talk to her but leave nothing in writing.
     
    #16
    rainydaze likes this.
  17. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,089
    Likes Received:
    938
    To clarify...the mention of him dealing with the divorce is not with the legal process, but the emotional process. I was trying to narrate the emotional process that may happen if the email gets forwarded to him. He may not go and deal with the OP right away because he had to deal with his divorce while this email sits around waiting for him to read it again on a really off day.... I may trust the wife to be a good person, but she may act impulsively and have him read the letter.
     
    #17
    rainydaze and Spygirl like this.
  18. RLrose

    RLrose Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    25
    Good Luck. I think you should send the email- not for your sake (you are getting what you deserve here) but for her sake. If you really do love her then give her closure. Her world has been changed wither her divorce and maybe you were a good thing for her because she got out of the marriage she needed to get out of...but she was deceived, manipulated, and played by not only her husband but by you too. I hope after you send the email you respect what she needs from you- whether she never wants to talk to you again or needs to talk to you more to get more closure- show respect and let it be.
     
    #18
  19. the B in LGBT

    the B in LGBT Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    26
    I think Dick is far too image conscious to allow any of this to come to light and I say that without exaggeration. It was one of the many annoying things about him (the exclusivity thing aside) that caused me to end what we had. Summer (I don’t want to call her Pussy anymore) said he took a week's vacation from work and wouldn't leave the house to nurse his broken nose just so no one would see him or ask how it happened. Having anyone he knows find out that his wife left him for the woman he cheated on her would permanently damage the image he so dearly wants to protect and I think he cares more about himself and his image than he does about Summer or what I’ve done for that matter.

    Legally speaking, there are no alienation of affection laws in my state and even if there were, this is an odd situation. I didn’t know about the girlfriend or Summer but I do know of at least 1 other woman he was having a tryst with while he and I were seeing one another and Summer did leave him, in part, because she fell for me. He could also press assault charges against me (I don’t know if there’s a statute of limitations) but that would mean he would be in the spotlight for being punched by a woman and all of his laundry would be aired. Also there were witnesses so even if I am arrested, I believe nothing would come of it. I would probably have an arrest record which I would have to deal with but surprisingly, I’m at ease with the thought of it now.

    I’m not afraid for my personal safety at all but if he wants to come for me, which again I doubt he will, I have a .22 that I’m licensed to carry and I know how to use because my dad who is an ex-marine taught me. I also took 2 years of Aikido and I remember most of it.

    Now about the email. I don’t want to have this conversation in person. Not because I can’t look her in the face and tell her the truth but because I can’t look her in the face period. I don’t want my inability to speak and general miserableness to sway her big heart into doing something she doesn’t want to do or isn't ready for. Her email said she spent the bulk of her marriage convincing herself that she and Dick were fine. I don’t want her love for me, my tears or her missing me and now seeing me in the flesh to convince her head that I’m right for her if I’m truly not right for her. For the first time since we met, I need her to have all the power to decide what comes next without my influence. It took me 2 days to write that email because I wanted it to be devoid of anything that could be misread as manipulation or inauthentic. Also, it still hurts like hell when her image pops in my head for too long. Right now I’d be a blubbering mess and there would be no way I could get all of what needs to be said out in the open in a meaningful and coherent way. I do trust her not to share it with Dick but even if I’m wrong and she does, I’m not afraid of what may come of it. This entire situation is maturing me in ways I didn’t think possible and I’m willing to face whatever the consequences are for all that I’ve knowingly and unknowingly done. We all have to grow up some time and I guess this is a growth spurt of mass proportions for me.

    Thank you all for your concern and I will be cautious regardless.
     
    #19
    TADinUS, rainydaze and greylin like this.
  20. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,386
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    A .22 is a pretty small gun for self defense. Personally, I would opt for something bigger.

    I also advise you to tell her this stuff to her face. My reason is pretty simple - sometimes the truth really, really hurts. Sometimes, "the whole truth" can be too much of a bomb shell to drop on someone at once. I say this from experience as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. I had to face the truth of what happened to me in little bits - all at once would have been way too overwhelming.

    If you send her that whole email you are going to be hitting her with:
    1) Dick cheated on her
    2) Dick cheated on her multiple times
    3) Dick fell for at least some of the women he cheated on her with
    4) Dick cheated on her with some skeezy women (Ms. assaulted you)
    5) Dick cheated on her with you
    6) You didn't ask questions of Dick, because it was just casual and his relationship status wasn't your concern
    7) You first looked Summer up to get revenge on Dick
    8) Maybe you aren't exactly who she thought you were (see items 5 to 7)
    9) You are really sorry for the shit things you did
    10) You have perspective on the shit things you did, why you did them and why they were wrong
    11) You are in love with her
    12) Even with your family history, you are in love with her

    That is pretty much dropping an emotional nuclear bomb on someone. It could cause her a lot of pain - and overwhelm her way too much.

    If you tell her stuff to her face, you can read her ques and see if she is overwhelmed or not. She may have known that Dick cheated, but not known how much. Or she may not have known that he would fall for the side pieces. If she gets overwhelmed you can stop and pick up with the rest of the story later.

    I get that you want to confess now and get it over with. But this is a complicated situation. She is still dealing with her pending divorce from Dick. Dumping a bunch of stuff about Dick and You and Dick together and about You and her and about you all at once - I think that it is just too much.

    I say send her an email saying that you care for her, but you really need to talk. But be forewarned - you are two emotionally intense people who are about to jump on a bucking Bronco on crack.
     
    #20
    rainydaze and greylin like this.

Share This Page