the most unclear of breakups // sexless lesbian love

Discussion in 'Relationships' started by cocojamba, Oct 4, 2015.

  1. cocojamba

    cocojamba New Member

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    so i'm sensing the source of the problem is an incomplete and unclear breakup. but there are likely many sources...

    nevertheless, i'm trapped in my own seventh layer of hell and i don't know what to do.

    i guess i could say that we broke up a year ago. that was when she decided that she didn't want to have sex with me anymore. neither of us are monogamous, nor were we when we were 'together'. that we could agree on. and i think we could also both agree that i was/am more in love with her than she with me. which definitely put a strain on our relationship.

    then we've spent the past year, while still living with each other in separate rooms in a collective living situation, trying to rebuild a friendship and negotiate new boundaries. it was so fucking difficult at the beginning and we had lots of resentment towards one another for mistakes made. we've worked really hard to forgive each other and i'm proud of that. though she claims that she has not yet been able to forgive herself and that's an obstacle to getting to where we want to be. and i understand that i need to give space to that feeling, but it's hard for me to understand.

    as things have gotten better, we constantly want to be close to each other. she wants to cuddle and sleep with me and is very expressive in her commitment to me. she is committed to being partners for a long time. but that cannot and will not include sex. i've tried to come to terms with this, but it's not comfortable for me. and it builds resentment on my part that results in quite regular arguments. and i feel it's a complicated resentment as i am not able to express this need for a type of closeness that i want, as pressuring someone for sex is totally against my politics and ethics. so i start fights about everything else between. it's not pretty.

    finally yesterday i broke down and expressed how i don't feel like she's meeting me in the middle. that our relationship, that we both take super seriously, causes me some painful feelings when i feel that my partner is repulsed by my body/sexuality. she said that she is not repulsed by me, but sex is that last thing that she wants. she let things get out of hand when we were sleeping together and sees this as the source of the hurt that we caused each other. she also is convinced that there is no way to satisfy me sexually and she cannot deal with that pressure. of course this conversation was unintentionally loaded with pressure, but i didn't know how else to broach the topic but directly. but she says that expressing my dissatisfaction with the lack of sex in our relationship shows how little i appreciate the other ways we care for each other.

    in the heat of the discussion, she offered to meet me in the middle by having sex once per year. this offer made me feel so stupid and like i was at some court-ordered negotiating table. but maybe i'm just overreacting...

    but i do feel like a sex-crazed asshole. and i'm sick of empowering my internalized slutshaming tendencies. but i don't know how to get out of this situation. i thought that if we were really committed and we were really in this together, we could find a way to meet in the middle and find a way to talk about sex that wouldn't make me feel like an asshole and we could find a way to get both of our desires met. i guess i'm just naive.

    i love her in a very important way. i just don't know how to keep holding on to a partner who doesn't want to meet me halfway. i know that i can find sex elsewhere (though that's kinda easier said than done), but i want this kind of closeness with her too. i am not sure if i can find the space within this relationship dynamic to build meaningful relationships with other people. it's too all consuming.

    but to end things just because of differences in libido also feels shallow. and i wouldn't really know how to end it anyway. i'm stuck. and i feel super lonely in my body. any advice out there???
     
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  2. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    Break up with her, be friends, don't cuddle, move on.

    She wants an asexual relationship. You want a sexual relationship. There is no compromise there. If sex is important to you (and it is normal and not 'slutty' for sex to be important), then a sexless relationship is not going to work for you.

    I understand that 'relationships' are different for different people. Some want monogamous, some want causal, some want open, etc... So I am not trying to fit you into the box of 'two-people-monogamous.' That being said, you just have to understand your own limits and desires and deal with them. If you can't deal with being in an asexual romantic relationship, then you can't. If you can't deal with loving someone, but not being able to spontaneously be sexual with them, then you can't deal with it. That doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you human. Wanting to be sexual with your gf is pretty normal and understandable.

    Honestly, what you gals have doesn't sound very healthy. Neither of you are happy, neither of you are having your needs met, you both have a lot of hurt feelings, you both are doing all this work to get over mistakes and regret. You love her more than she loves you and you want sex and she doesn't. Yet neither of you know how to break up. That sounds more like enmeshment to me, than a healthy relationship. (And I feel kinda bad for your housemates, tbh).

    Seriously. Take a step back. You are questioning if it is ok to want to have sex with your gf.

    That is how far you have lost perspective. That is how badly this relationship has twisted you in knots. That you are questioning one of your basic relationship needs (sex), instead of saying 'ok, we don't want the same things, it is better to break up and find someone more compatible.'

    All this drama and negotiating and over thinking would not be necessary if you found someone who was more compatible. I know that it is hard because you love her. But this is not going to work out and it is not good for either of you.
     
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  3. Frazier

    Frazier Well-Known Member

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    Only time will tell if your relationship will get to a mature level where each of you are able to understand each other and your individual needs.I believe that right now,she needs a friend and needs to forgive herself before intimacy of a sexual kind is there(with you) and that's where you have to be patient.Give it sometime.Women respond to that.But if you just want sex for now.....Move on!
     
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  4. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    I have to say, I disagree with this advice. I think it is kinda dangerous to be like 'if you just coax a woman the right way, she will have sex with you.'

    Women don't want sex, or don't want to have sex with a specific person for lots of reasons - a history of having been sexual abused or assaulted, not being attracted to the other person, not being sexually compatible with the other person, illnesses or injuries and just plain old being asexual.

    The op and her gf?? have done a lot of healing work, but haven't had sex in a year.

    The gf said "she said that she is not repulsed by me, but sex is that last thing that she wants. she let things get out of hand when we were sleeping together and sees this as the source of the hurt that we caused each other. she also is convinced that there is no way to satisfy me sexually and she cannot deal with that pressure."

    Those are pretty big issues of incompatibility - feeling like you can't satisfy your gf, feeling like sex gets 'out of control' and damages the rest of the relationship, and the big one - not wanting sex at all.

    I don't think that those are issues that can be solved by 'just being patient.' I mean, if the op wants sex a few times a week (or a few times a day) and the gf wants it once a year, there is always going to be tension, pressure and hurt feelings there. And if the gf feels like sex is somehow damaging other things, she isn't very likely to ever want to have sex.

    I think both of them would be happier finding partners who are more compatible.
     
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  5. lorienczhiu

    lorienczhiu Well-Known Member

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    Yes to the first - you should be able to talk about this without feeling like an asshole. You're not an asshole.

    But I'm sorry: hell no to the second. "Meeting in the middle " is an impossibility. You want and need different things, and while everyone is entitled to the kind of love that makes them feel most supported, not everyone is entitled to get that at the expense of other people's desires, needs, and safety.

    She wants an asexual relationship. That's a fundamental part of what she's looking for. She should not have to compromise that even once a year, by having sex that she does not want to have and only feels compelled to have out of guilt. You want a sexual relationship with your partner; sexual intimacy, for people who seek it, counts up there with food and water and safety among basic human drives. You should not have to give it up permanently or only experience it infrequently and knowing it's given grudgingly. There is no compromise here. Her getting what she wants is you giving up a fundamental need; you getting what you want is her giving up the same. It 100% sucks, and I know that the only thing you want is for it to all work out - but honey, this is like having kids. There is no middle path between yes and no that is fair and healthy and satisfying.
    .
    Beyond that, though.... that's not even the thing that I think is the biggest dealbreaker here. It's this:

    There are about a thousand red flags here, for you and for her and for your relationship together. She sees sex as harm (not seeing that its absence is causing you harm); that your sex drive is unreasonable and unconquerable, and that she doesn't even want to try (no wonder you feel sex-crazed! she is basically telling you that you are); that sexual desire equals pressure (it really, really doesn't have to); that wanting sex means that you are unappreciative (as though your sex drive is supposed to switch off when she makes you dinner or supports you through a bad day). Throughout, she experiences your sex drive as a destructive force for her and for your love for one another, and does not understand that for you it is a way to build intimacy and experience love.

    Back to the fundamental mismatch - now not just of desires, but of philosophies, with a dose of controlling and emotional gaslighting mixed in. She obviously feels very strongly about what is best for her, and that's her prerogative, but the way she is protecting herself is harming you. This is not healthy.

    Whatever love you feel for her, I think it's time for you to see it as a valuable part of your life, a potential foundation for a friendship, but not the core of a partnership - because you need something different, and something more.
     
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  6. Spygirl

    Spygirl Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to expound upon what @Bluenote said here.... To do so I'm going to dumb it down quite a bit to make this crystal clear, ok?

    Building a relationship is like baking a cake -- you need certain essential elements to make it work. Likewise, baking a cake you'd need things such as flour, eggs, sugar, water, etc. If you don't have flour, you don't have a cake. If you don't have eggs or water, you don't have a cake. The point is, you need ALL the ingredients to have the cake actually work..and be something edible. Likewise, relationships require the same type of attention, and I don't care how you slice it or dice it but intimacy is a critical component of any relationship. Intimacy in the form of sex is important, because we as human beings do have physical needs. When a relationship lacks something that's important to one person, then the necessary ingredients aren't there to allow the relationship to be successful.

    Your relationship right now is like a box of cake mix without the water or eggs. Sure, you might have elements of a relationship but do you really have a relationship if the two of you can't even agree on how to compromise. Maybe one or both of you is codependent and can't let go? Or maybe one or both of you haven't got the first clue about what a healthy relationship is supposed to entail? If you both weren't monogamous, then it's clear that she has no problems with sex -- she just has problems having sex with you. Relationships also shouldn't be unbalanced...if you love her more than she loves you? Hello, problem.

    Take a step back and be objective. She doesn't want you completely, but she won't let you go either. And thus, you live in limbo..stuck somewhere between being friends and not quite having a relationship because crucial elements are missing.

    Break up and move on. Find someone who fulfills your needs -- emotionally, sexually, intellectually....Otherwise, sit back and settle for a faux relationship that will never get better. She can't rip the band aid off and let you go but she knows she can't give you what you need either, especially when she's already getting what she wants from you without having to make any compromises. That sounds pretty selfish to me.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 5, 2015
  7. Frazier

    Frazier Well-Known Member

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    Sounds to me more like 'lesbian Death Bed' which a lot of couples go through.While its so heart breaking to read Cocojamba's post,her post makes for familiar reading.Its so easy to assume one might have 'asexual' tendencies and I believe many may disagree with me but a lot of women are suffering and its a TOPIC that needs to be explored thoroughly!
     
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  8. Frazier

    Frazier Well-Known Member

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    That's just my 2 cents on it!Moving on itsn't always the solution.
     
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  9. Spygirl

    Spygirl Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. While LBD does happen -- in my opinion it happens because people get complacent, life gets in the way, work, school, whatever. The romance in relationships does not have to die. From the original post, it sounds like the poster was way more into her g/f than the g/f was into her. Incompatibility in the bedroom from the beginning of the relationship is a significant problem and is wholly different than LBD.

    Communication and making time for the little things is often an easy way around LBD, btw. My wife and I joke that we like sleep more than sex (because we're very busy with careers, etc.) but the point is..we still make time for romance, dates, and yes sex. The difference being -- the desire for sex is STILL there even if our schedules can be crappy at times.
     
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  10. Frazier

    Frazier Well-Known Member

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  11. Frazier

    Frazier Well-Known Member

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    You are entitled to disagree.What you and your wife have is special but sadly,lots of couples do go through LBD!
     
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  12. Spygirl

    Spygirl Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree with you on the LBD topic -- and that a lot of couples (straight or gay) experience the death of their sex lives. There is a huge difference, however, between sexual incompatibility withholding of sex and LBD.

    I think, overall, most people get complacent and forget that as a couple they have to grow together -- but sadly, they grow apart. Unfortunately, you have too many people getting into and staying in relationships for the wrong reasons than for the right ones...whether it's codependency, lack of self esteem, etc. Relationships -- or marriages -- take work. From what the original poster said -- there's a deeper problem in her relationship which goes beyond the sex or LBD -- i.e. the g/f "lets things get out of hand when they sleep together"
     
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  13. lorienczhiu

    lorienczhiu Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how helpful any of this is to the OP. Her problem is not merely the decline of intimacy, it's a fundamental disagreement about the place of sex as intimacy in their relationship. Having more or less sex will not help them reach a mutual definition, and slapping a (flawed) label like LBD on the problem ignores the nuances and particulars of their situation. It's not that they've just gradually forgotten to have sex; one of the partners has decided that sex is not a thing she wants or thinks is healthy for her.

    BECAUSE more recent research/surveys, including autostraddle's epic lesbian sex survey last year, indicate that LBD is kind of a myth - or at least no more prevalent among lesbians than any other group. And the psuedoscience that is responsible for this idea has probably harmed a lot of relationships, on absolutely no grounds, and taught us to believe that it is normal for lesbians to stop having sex and feel depraved when we don't. The truth, though, is that people have different libidos and different needs, and it's not some kind of gay pathology that dooms us. It's just how humans work.

    Some people do not want or need sex. Some people experience a time in their lives when they don't want or need sex, even if generally they are sexual beings, in the short or long term. Some people have experiences that make sex hard or unwelcome for them, in the short or long term. Some of these things will change, and may not change back. And people who do not want to have sex, no matter why they don't want to have sex, should not be made to feel guilty, or broken, or unkind for it - just like people who DO want to have sex should not feel guilty or broken or unkind. There are lots of ways to approach this, in relationships and out of it.

    The problem is not that the OP or her girlfriend are right or wrong, having too much sex or not enough; it's that they want different things from their sex life and their relationship.
     
    #13
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  14. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    I agree that a continued debate among us all won't really help the op. The opost was somewhat brief, given what seems like a relationship with a lot of history. What did she mean be "my gf feels like she can never satisfy me sexually" or "she felt like when we were having sex, things got out of hand?"

    Obviously, I think the OP can read and judge if she thinks her "partner" saying she didn't want to have sex was because of some kind of growing apart lbd, or if it came from something else.

    I agree that lbd is an interesting topic, but it would be better to have it on a different thread and not hijack this one. So what the hell, I am going to start an lbd thread.
     
    #14
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