Paging Greylin, Moses, Bluenote et al

Discussion in 'Does She Like Me?' started by Dizzo32, Jul 18, 2014.

  1. Dizzo32

    Dizzo32 Member

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    This is my second try from my phone because the first didn't post so forgive me if it's not as coherent as I'd like it to be.
    I met a friend at work who set off my gaydar. We can call her D. Over the holidays I thought to myself, I'm going to become friends with her. (Don't worry, I don't work there anymore and I'd never do that anyway).
    We hit it off immediately and have become friends who talk and text daily, hang out regularly, and she has met my friends and family. Most of her friends live elsewhere and her family is sadly very complicated.
    Early on she was dating guys via a dating website. I was very supportive of this and encouraged her to engage, as she is so closed off when it comes to relationships. When we spent our first long weekend together I asked her about relationships (yes, on a whim I asked her to go with me and friends on a long weekend and she agreed without hesitation. This was 3 months in to this friendship). She has not had any serious relationships and has many excuses as to why. Too busy, family issues, poor body image, I dated him but "I don't know it was just weird", type of comments. She is in her early 30's.
    So the dating tapers off and she now spends much of her free time with me instead. I've been open since the beginning that I'm gay and I joke about my past relationships. She doesn't flinch.
    So as this progresses, I am feeling things and it got to be a little much for me. So I have a talk with a mutual work friend who just "gets" both of us. Turns out this friend (H) had just said something to D about me being her "girlfriend who isn't her girlfriend" and D said "it's not like that". My mouth dropped open. I asked of there had been other conversations. She said that when D and I first started hanging out they worked an event together and D told her she thought I liked her and then proceeded to spend 45 minutes telling H all the reasons she wasn't gay. H said "well straight people don't have to spend that much time saying why they aren't straight" and somewhere in there she told her not to mess with my feelings. I got a little mad when I heard this because I felt played. But when I think of D I see a person who is either so closeted or who maybe had a trauma that doesn't allow her to get close to anyone, guy or girl. So where she is so open with me emotionally she is closed physically.
    I could list the million examples of why I think there's something more but I'm old enough to know when a person is being a friend and when they feel a little something more. I'll just say that I have plenty of friends and I am not in as much contact or spend as much time with any of them. She texts me first thing when she gets up, does incredibly thoughtful things for me, and it's just more than a friendship that's "normal". She just may not be able to handle it or she may go screaming so deep into the closet I'll never see her again. I don't want that. But I also don't want to feel like I'm being used for all the non-physical intimacy of a true relationship. If that's all it will be I have to move on and meet other people.
    So there it is. Rock-me-hard place. Thoughts?
     
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  2. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

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    I don't get the vibe that D is messing with you or you are getting played. Friendship between women can be wonderfully intense and intimate without it being romantic. You are someone she trusts enough and likes enough to tell all her daily coming and goings to. You are special to her and I wouldn't be surprised if she really doesn't know herself what she wants in a mate. So I would take it at face value and not discuss you and her with H because that is worse than playing telephone. It is really ok to talk to her and tell her to trust you with whatevs. If she runs, she runs, it is better not to keep things in your heart about a good friend.

    One more thing: most straight women I have met had wondered at one pt or the other about kissing another woman. They may even follow through but they may not understand the consequence of that, what it may do to some gay girls who are not Shane-fortified. That is just a bit random info. I don't know why I am bringing it up ... she seems conservative so far physically and I think she is taking care not to lead you on.
     
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  3. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    I think you know the answer. I think you are struggling to accept the answer, quite understandably.

    From what you describe, it sounds like she has a trauma history. Physical or sexual abuse can be one kind of trauma, but a toxic family dynamic or emotional abuse can be another kind.


    "Most of her friends live elsewhere and her family is sadly very complicated."
    "She has not had any serious relationships and has many excuses as to why. Too busy, family issues, poor body image..."
    "or who maybe had a trauma that doesn't allow her to get close to anyone, guy or girl."

    I do not think D is using you. I think she is likely doing the best she can, given her circumstances. Your description is of a trauma survivor who is being held back by her past - family issues, few friends, few relationships, poor self image, difficulty with physical intimacy.

    Until she gets some help, she will continue to struggle with these problems. If she does get help, it will take her quite some time (and some difficult growing pains) to sort them through. That help needs to be experienced and impartial (i.e. a therapist).

    Sadly, she may choose to not get help. It can be very difficult to face the past. Basically, one gets to go through hell to clean up someone else's mess. Not fun.

    Where does this leave you?


    Rock-me-hard place.

    Basically you have to
    1) accept the situation
    2) take care of yourself
    3) not cause her unnecessary injury

    In accepting the situation, you have to accept that wonderful people (such as myself) had really shitty things done to them. You also have to accept that those shitty things can leave a nasty wound, which has to be dealt with for a person to truly move on in life. AND, you get to accept that she has not yet dealt with her wound. AND, (if that weren't enough), it is her choice to deal with it, or not - no matter how much it is costing her to avoid it. AND, at current she is choosing not to deal with it.

    In taking care of yourself, you have to set limits about what you can take. You don't want to have a gf who is not a gf. You don't want to be someone's "rescuer." You don't want to have your head effed with (however unintentionally). You don't want to be so connect to her that it crowds out dating people who are available, having healthy friendships, etc...

    But you don't want to hurt her by abandoning her. It sounds like she doesn't have a problem talking about gay stuff.


    I'm gay and I joke about my past relationships. She doesn't flinch."

    I think you should be frank that you want to be her friend, but you don't want more. (OK, you want more, but you know she's not capable and it wouldn't be healthy for either of you). I think you should be frank that certain things feel too gf but not gf-ie. Like the first thing in the am texts. Or the constant time together. Or the not doing as much with other people.

    "When we spent our first long weekend together..." There have been weekends plural?
    "We hit it off immediately and have become friends who talk and text daily, hang out regularly, and she has met my friends and family."
    "So the dating tapers off and she now spends much of her free time with me instead."
    "She texts me first thing when she gets up, does incredibly thoughtful things for me, and it's just more than a friendship that's 'normal'."


    Then back off contact. Ignore the am texts until noon, schedule days away from her, back off the deep emotional talk, make effort to spend time with other friends. Observe your feelings. If you catch yourself feeling bad for abandoning her, or wanting to hang 24-7 - remind yourself that those things aren't healthy.

    But I also don't want to feel like I'm being used for all the non-physical intimacy of a true relationship. If that's all it will be I have to move on and meet other people.

    It can be really hard to admit that cool people are just not in a good place. I just reconnected with an old friend of mine recently. She had a bad childhood. Now - she is suicidal, her kids have emotional problems and her wife is a toxic emotionally abusive pos. And my friend keeps going back to her wife in the cycle of abuse, apologies, honeymoon, more abuse - no real change.

    As much as I feel for my friend, I had to disconnect from her. I can't live her life for her and I just have to accept the consequences of her decision. (Not facing her past, being doomed to relive it in the present day).

    I'm truly sorry. This is very sad and hard advice to give.

    Post more if you need to talk more...
     
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  4. Dizzo32

    Dizzo32 Member

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    Thanks for posting. I know myself and know that in the past I've gotten involved in things up to my eyeballs because I can't stand to see someone in a crappy situation. I'm a "fixer". I encouraged her to go to therapy about her family, because it isn't enough to tell me all about it - she needed coping strategies (I have an MA in Counseling myself, albeit not licensed and not practicing, but knew I couldn't be the therapist in the way that she needed - she needed an uninvolved/unbiased party to listen to her). She was in therapy for a time and it seemed to really help her. However, interestingly (or predictably) she got through all the family stuff and said they touched on relationships and then she said she was "done" and felt 100% better. I didn't push her as that's not my place.
    She's clearly avoiding relationship stuff. That said, I know I need to take care of me and not get wrapped up in someone who will likely never be right for me. But my brain keeps saying "what if you just told her how you felt?". And I'm not one to even do that - I'm overly reserved when it comes to feelings myself, but when I'm in a good relationship I completely open up.
    Anyway, I hear you Bluenote on the creating space stuff. I have made a point to spend more time with my friends and now that I've left the job I had (I traveled 90% of the time) I can actually think about possibly meeting someone available.
    I need to put this friendship in its place and try to normalize it a bit. I don't think it would hurt to tell her that some things feel too gf-ie to me and that stuff should probably taper off. I'll be interested to see what her reaction to that would be.
    She planned a fairly big night for my birthday which is coming up in a couple weeks. She's super excited about it (as am I, frankly) but I know what I have to do as well. I'll have to start creating some boundaries over the next few weeks so that the relationship is healthy and not detrimental to either of us.
     
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  5. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I think your head and your heart are in two different places about this.

    I think your head sees signs that she is not ready / capable of an intimate relationship. But your heart really likes her. So your heart is trying to come up with a narrative that would mean you gals could wind up together. "Well, maybe she just hasn't come out yet, but once she does, she'll be great at intimacy and we can be a couple." "Maybe when I tell her that this is feeling too girlfriendie she'll kiss me and then we'll be gfs."

    But your head knows to assess her relationships overall. Does she have good friends? Is she good at opening up, trusting, sharing? Does she have decent boundaries? Does she have a high pain tolerance, or seem out of touch with her body or emotions? Etc..., etc... You know the signs that someone has unprocessed trauma. So spend a little time and write a long, detailed list - get it all in black and white.

    Then your head can have a little talk with your heart. As in - her relationship issues are deeper than just needing to come out. And is it healthy for you to have a gf-but-not-gf who is unavailable?

    I know its hard. You like her. You like how it feels when you are the first person she thinks of. You like what its like to have someone do sweet, appreciative things for you. And you don't want to face that this cool person got hurt badly in the past.

    But ultimately, it won't work out for you to want more than her (or more than she is capable of, really). She'll feel pressured and you'll feel rejected. Or you'll fall into rescuing habits and she'll resent being pushed. Things'll start out good, but the truth always catches up with you.

    You've let things go pretty far with her as a gf-but-not-gf. So its not going to be easy taking a step back. You are going to have to grieve a bit. You kind of have to breakup-but-not-breakup from your gf-but-not-gf.
     
    #5

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