Need courage...

Discussion in 'General Advice' started by rac, May 8, 2014.

  1. rac

    rac Well-Known Member

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    I moved here because of a broken heart - the ex chose her career than being out and be with me. I thought I was doing good, alone yet the pain from my failed relationship was slowly ebbing away. I wasn't exactly looking for love and when the craving for a warm body next to mine was too strong, I somehow always find a willing person to share the loneliness. I thought that was enough until I saw her.

    I saw her on the coffee shop most mornings, always alone on the same table by the window looking out to nothing; every time, I take a secret glance at her and wonder what it would be like knowing her; what if I go there, say hi and introduce myself. Every time I go to the coffee shop, I think to myself: will this be the day I finally get the courage to ask her name?

    So the other day, as I was looking at her, I thought to myself, this girl will either break your heart really bad or make you the happiest person in the world. As I was contemplating that thought, and I maybe was looking at her with a goofy smile on my face all that time, she suddenly turned and looked straight to me.And smiled. At me.So I did what most of you might have done, I turned around and left.

    I haven't been back there after that little incident. Should I? I mean, I don't even know if she's straight or not. The coffee shop is right in the middle of a known gay-friendly city so I'm hoping she is. But she doesn't look the part so I don't really know. I'm kind of femme-looking myself so... I'm hopelessly in need of some courage here, ladies. Please help.
     
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  2. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

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    Take a note of what coffee and pastries she get and send over a cuppa or something sweet. If that is too much then say hi first. If she is reading something you are familiar with start a conversation about that. (Damn kindle/laptops these days).

    It is worth the risk to make a connection and go from there. Gay or not, you might not even like her once you start talking to her. It is like a job, you are interviewing them too.
     
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  3. rac

    rac Well-Known Member

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    A few things happened... It turned out my two best friends know her. I know, seems like small world but outside of work, I'm not that social. To be honest, so far those I've met are people I don't have any interest meeting again. I know, I'm not proud of it. Anyway, we've been introduced. Her best friend is gay. She's single. She is straight.

    Greylin, I lol'ed on your comment about how this is like a job interview. You're right, that's another way of looking at it. So far I've only heard good things about her but then again, she's straight. She seems really friendly and welcoming, I think I wouldn't mind being her friend at least (I'm new in the city so I don't have a lot.) She offered to take me around town and see the sights. Maybe I'll take her up on her offer.

    She seems really nice but I'm only basing it on the one time we hung out with other people, mostly her friends. And I haven't shaken off my crush on her yet so maybe I'm a little biased. And yes, I know, I have not forgotten she's straight. She just happen to be my type - gorgeous eyes, beautiful smile with a really good sense of humor...

    There was one thing that happened that got me thinking though. One of their straight friends openly flirted with me. She had one drink too many at that point so I knew what the deal was. I kind of played along but thought nothing of it. I'm not one for drunken hookups with straight girls anyway.But my crush called her friend out with her flirting and even apologized to me for their friend's behaviour. I just thought that was sweet of her. I don't have the notion that she did it for me - I think she would have done it for anybody. I don't know what I'm saying here; I was heartbroken with the last one and I haven't looked at anybody like that in a while. There's just something about her. I'm not sure if I am trying to talk myself out of this or still trying to get some form of courage to see where it goes. I don't know...

    It may sound like I'm rambling now. I guess I just need to tell somebody, it's not something I can talk with anybody at this point. Like I said, my two best friends are also friends with her and I can't really remember what we were talking about but they warned she's kind of off-limits. I'm not sure what that means, I didn't get a chance to ask more. I don't think she's bad news or anything like that, everbody seems to like her so my guess is there's a back-story with the best friend somehow.

    Anyway, thanks for listening. I'll maybe post again if there's anything more.
     
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  4. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I like her! She is really a good egg and someone I would have a mild crush on for the rest of my life just to bask in that positive energy. People like her are hard to find and is a good force in the world. I hope you will enjoy her friendship. I also like that you don't like to drunk hook up with a straight girl (very smart). And even smarter yet, you didn't hook up with drunk straight girl because you wanted to grab a floaty in a sea of crush.

    Take care and thanks so much for the update. :)
     
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  5. rac

    rac Well-Known Member

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    Greylin - "floaty in a sea of crush" - you are hilarious!

    So I got a message from her today asking me if I still want to see the sights because according to her, I haven't been a proper tourist. She said she got nothing this weekend so if I want, she can take me around. I told her thanks but I didn't want to impose on her (I know, I'm such a big idiot sometimes...) She insisted it's not a problem so I accepted her offer. So we have a date. Well, it's not really a date. Ok, it is, in my head...
     
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  6. TADinUS

    TADinUS Well-Known Member

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    Keep this in mind... as a friend... she may meet another woman think you two will hit it off. I've done that for others and have that done to me.

    Seeing the sights and learning about your new town is good for you.
     
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  7. rac

    rac Well-Known Member

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    So she took me around and now I am beginning to really like her... We went out a couple of times since then, not a date, just hanging out and talking about stuff. She is witty and insightful; she can hold an intelligent conversation with just about everything but is quick to admit when she has no clue on the topic and not afraid to ask questions. She disagrees with you without sounding argumentative. She acknowledges your opinion when she's proven wrong. She seems one of a kind and seems unbelievable at times. But she is not just nice, she is a good person if that makes sense. Did I mention she has those beautiful eyes that seem to smile when she does? And the way she laughs... I asked her what she's doing with somebody she barely knows on a weekend when there must be a long line of people wanting to get a chance to date her. She said she's loving the single life. And taking a break. From what, I don't know because she changed the subject pretty quick. We haven't talked about more personal stuff yet.

    Anyway, I tried to get more info about her from my best friend but what I got was a stark reminder of why I moved here in the first place. I tried to argue but she quickly shot it down by saying I am only opening myself to another heartbreak because if she wanted to be with a woman, or even considered it, she would have done it a long time ago with the best friend. So that's what the off-limits warning was about.

    I think we are friends now and that's where it will stay, whether I like it or not. We exchange messages on a regular basis now as I imagine she does with her other friends. Except that I wait for her messages in eager anticipation

    I'm not sure why I'm here pouring my heart out; I guess it's easier to tell a stranger about these things. I'm a little bit embarrassed posting my issues here, I mean, I'm not even that young. I'm not even new in this game and not inexperienced but when it comes to her, I am clueless as f_k (sorry but I can't find a better expression to get my frustration across.)
     
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  8. TADinUS

    TADinUS Well-Known Member

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    I'd say, keep it in the friend-zone.

    But... "because if she wanted to be with a woman, or even considered it, she would have done it a long time ago with the best friend. So that's what the off-limits warning was about." -err... no.

    Are you in a romantic relationship with your best friend? Are you romantic with everyone you meet? No. Your friend cannot dictate WHO another person will be attracted to.

    Still, let her know YOU are in the market with someone LIKE HER, but who may LIKE YOU. That "meeting someone with your personality and energy is what I have discovered to really like. I'm glad you like me, that you are a friend".

    You can tell strangers ANYTHING because we are all strangers. We are not your friends in real life. You cannot be picked out in a crowd unless you told us who you are, facebook, etc. You can tell people (online anonymous) your darkest secrets or fantasies without your family knowing, right? That is why you posted here, rather than facebook.
     
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  9. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

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    Yep what Tad said. I like his tactic on how you would give her a peek at what you want.

    If she goes out of her way to show that you are just friends then that is the signal that you are just going to be friends. She could be one of those straight girls who find it hard to connect with other straight girls on a deeper level and always end up being a gay girl's best friend and then it gets complicated.
     
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  10. rac

    rac Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for listening and the advice, TAD and Greylin! Just one thing, in defense of my best friend, I think she only said that to protect me.

    It feels like things are moving fast and we're becoming fast friends for which I'm not sure if I should be grateful or not. I told her about the ex and that I was dumped. She assured me that there is somebody out there for me. I told her I thought the ex was the one and I was so devastated that I lost my game to a point that I even asked an advice on an online forum. She laughed hard thinking I was joking. When she realized I wasn't joking, she got serious and told me I should always consider her as somebody to talk to. Like I can tell her how I really feel. Anyway, at some point of that conversation this happened (I'll start calling her M):

    M: Are you kidding me? You're like the '"catch"! You're smart, you're stable, and let me say, really good-looking! I mean, I know couple of straight women who will gladly switch teams for you!
    Me: Yeah? Would you?
    M: What?
    Me: Uhm... Nothing. Do you want more tea?

    I played that conversation in my head over and over again and every time, it brings a smile and sadness. In that order. I'm really liking M and I know it' may not happen. I'm still hoping but I think it's only because nobody comes close to being her right now. We talked about Jls aka the best friend. That it's hard for her sometimes because it always feel like she's in a slippery slope with Jls and she always have to think about what Jls will think with everything she does or say. Because she doesn't want Jls to feel like she's leading her on or hurting Jls feelings in any way. And she told me that it's nice not to worry too much about that with me. She also told me that she can be really dense sometimes so I have to be honest with her. .

    Btw, she's some kind of a film buff and couldn't believe I haven't seen "Silence of the Lambs" yet. So she made me watch it with her yesterday. There's a particular scene in that movie where Jodie Foster's character was discussing some bug with two doctors. It is a good movie but that scene alone is the only thing I will remember from that movie. And here's why.

    One thing I found out is no matter how many times she's seen a movie it's like she is seeing it the first time, every time. So we were watching that movie in the privacy of her living room, just the two of us, she's deeply concentrating while I'm totally distracted by her presence so close to me. I kept stealing glances at her while she watched. Right at that moment when that scene I mentioned played, I thought maybe this is a good time to try your advice. So I told her how I'm really glad we're friends and being friends with her just made me realize what I'm really looking for. She looked at me and with all seriousness, borrowed a line from the movie - "Are you flirting with me, doctor?" That took me by surprise and I felt embarrassed that it took me a few seconds to say "Uhm, no!" So she told me to watch and gave me the sweetest smile only she can give and went back to watching that movie. Face-palm moment, right?

    So yeah, friend-zone I guess it is...
     
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  11. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

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    Besides having to take a cold shower reading your last update, I really had to mull this thing about your friend over. I am overly simplifying here, but I think there are 2 kinds of straight girls who get really close to gay girls. You have the ones who just love the attention and you have the ones who crave intimacy. Neither of those two will see themselves coupling with the gay girl even when things go physical. Your girl is someone who craves intimacy.

    The question would be whether or not she is gay and doesn't know it until the right person comes along (or she is fluid, etc). Now I know that question can be offensive to some people because if you flip it around and you hear some guys saying that some girls think they are gay but wait till the right guy comes along. However, since she has declared herself straight, that is the very question we are wondering. In wondering so, we are trying to pick up all the signs. Her complimenting you and the joke flirting really doesn't answer the question too much. I have done the very same thing to guys I have no interest in. I did it not because of the attention but because those guys were wonderful people I liked and felt comfortable with. There were times I would be tempted to give them what they want just like some straight girls who go physical with a gay girl and then go back. But that would be disastrous for someone who is into intimacy and not just attention.

    If I were in your shoes I would ask her clearly once in for all. I would say that she is someone I can really see myself fall for, as in I am standing at a precipice with my arms out holding a boulder. I just want to be clear and respectful and want to know for sure that she would never see herself dating me or us as a couple. She'd talked about some girls who would switch teams for me so I would want to make sure I am not missing any signals and being oblivious and not ask her on a proper date and miss an opportunity to explore this.

    So I am sorry this is hard to read and I don't mean to offend anyone. I am an old geezer in these parts and I am ready to totally ship you guys like some teen fan, even when I have been to all those places with straight women and back. She really does sound nice and if she had asked me if I were flirting I would have jumped the couch and said yes. But you are respectful and cautious and there must be a reason for that.
     
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  12. rac

    rac Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate you giving it to me straight. I need that. I thought about what you said. And you're right, I should ask her what the deal is. What's stopping me right now is the fact that I am still trying to get over a failed relationship. I am over the person but I'm not sure if I am ready to hear a rejection at this point. Maybe we'll stay friends even after she says no, after all she's still best friends with Jls. But they're friends for a really long time and we're just starting to be really comfortable with each other. So maybe whatever this we have will end after I confess. I'm not sure if I am ready to know. Sometimes it's easier not to know than facing it head-on. Because that's too damn scary. So I think I'd rather take what I can get for now.

    M is a wonderful human being and I'm not only saying that because I am heavily crushing on her. She is a good person, someone I will definitely regret losing even if it's only friendship. I liked her before we even met. If I believe in love at first sight then this must be that. But to me, fairy tales are just that, tales.

    I get where you're coming from and like I said, I appreciate the honesty. That's why I'm here. I know I have to face her and get answers sooner or later. More like later than sooner. Maybe I need to stop looking at her with longing and focus on the friendship. Maybe that's my problem, I am shipping us! I thought about it, if I ask her right here right now, whether or not she could see us together, most likely she'll say "dude, no." So I will try to let the friendship develop without the complications. I am guessing it will be hard but I definitely will try

    Btw, she mentioned her ex the other day. Turned out she turned down his proposal so they broke up. She said she still loves him but wasn't in love with him anymore. They were slowly breaking apart and she felt he did it as a last-ditch effort. She said it would not have been fair to both of them if she accepted. I don't know if this matters right now, I'm just throwing it out there.

    If anything changes, I will definitely update.
     
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  13. TADinUS

    TADinUS Well-Known Member

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    1 - "in defense of my best friend, I think she only said that to protect me." Maybe. It can go either way. People say and do strange things. Some gay guys would tell people that my bartender is gay. Okay, whatever. But the effect was less women would hit on him and they could hang around said bartender, who is NOT gay.

    2 - "M: Are you kidding me? You're like the '"catch"! You're smart, you're stable, and let me say, really good-looking! I mean, I know couple of straight women who will gladly switch teams for you!" In reference to other part of story in which she said "Are you flirting with me", that would have been a good time to ASK her if she was flirting with you.
    But your response was acceptable... and she HEARD you. PS: Ask her which women want to switch. :)

    3 - I'm a film buff myself and dense at times too. These types of people, really want to watch our films. I think I have about 1200 blu/DVD movies. :) I like this M.... whats her number? My wife isn't into movies the way I am (Just kidding!)

    4 - I agree with Greylin. And I don't think most people just need to meet the "right person"(Get F'd right) to flip sides. Yeah, there is fluidity, but that only goes so far. I think many people are bi-curious or bi, which is likely to allow a "flip". I've know / dated people who have switched, and to me - that is bi-sexual or pansexual, nothing more. And sometime, be a bit more direct with "I really like someone like you" - not just because she is a woman. This also means that YOU know what kind of partner to keep your eyes open for. After dating several dozens of women in the past few years, I was narrowing on what caught my eye, what personality was acceptable. My last girl who broke my heart was 4+ years before I meet my future wife. She was sexy party crazy girl, lots of good times - but I had to pretend to be someone I wasn't. It cried over her for years. Mind you, my wife isn't my "dream" girl that I thought I would be with - but she is what I want and need and its mutual and she makes me VERY happy. Aspects of her makes me love her every day, as I do back. So I give her a 100 on the scale, the last to break my hear all those years ago would be 20. Others 5 or so and one night-stands = 0.

    So, when I recognize what I had before me, I grabbed with both hands and never let go since our first date.

    Good luck... Off to work.
     
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  14. Anonymus

    Anonymus Well-Known Member

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    Wow.. your life is very interesting and captivating! I was at the edge of my my chair when I was reading and dying to know what happened next :) If I would have been in your situation could never would have waited this long patiently...greylin and TADinUS seems to be wise and helpful! I'm neither wise nor experienced but very much wants to know how it will turn, please keep us posted.
     
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  15. rac

    rac Well-Known Member

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    Tad, I noticed you said films. Funny, she also say films not movies now that I think about it. Is that a thing with you guys? And do you also get annoyed when someone talks to you in the middle of a movie? M once glared at me for asking something while we were watching, paused the movie and asked me if I'd rather talk than watch (she has a way of making sarcastic comments sound so adorable.) Do you also discuss the movie with your wife and you have all these scenarious, theories and all other assessments that you got from the movie and your wife's like, did we watch the same movie?

    Anyway, not sure if you read my reply to Greylin yet. You two did a good job of pointing out the obvious to me so I decided I'm too scared to hear it from her, that I'll just wait and see what happens and for now, just focus on the friendship. So more or less, continue to torment myself :)

    If, or when, I find the courage to ask her or with any luck, she starts looking at me differently, you know I will let you know.
     
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  16. TADinUS

    TADinUS Well-Known Member

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    @ Anonymus: You learn from experience, nothing more. I am made a lot of errors... and even *I* need advice from others. There is a girl which my wife likes and has made out with a bit. So I have to figure out a properly and respectfully way to ask her if she would date us. So it doesn't come off as "will you be our sex toy?" which is insulting. ;) Play the field, meet people, try NEW things (try not to get arrested).

    @ ambritRAC: Yes, I get annoyed when I want to share a movie with the wife - if she's making it not fun. A little chatter is fine. We were watching something a few days ago, her phone fb apps pops up. I paused the DVR until she was done... even thou she SAID it was "okay to play it" - the light from the phone and her usage was bugging me. She finished up in seconds.
    Now with Game of Thrones, she'll watch that intently. A close friend of mine, we go out to theaters together - its mine and her thing. "Discuss the movie with wife?" - sometimes, if needed. Most movies are not "deep". Either its a straight forward ending or its designed for individual interpretation. I *HATE* Transformers/stupid movies, but will enjoy a well made action flick. I like foreign films -- comedy, romantic and sexual types. Great films: Children of man. City of lost Children, Punch Drunk Love, Exotica, Crash (with Holly Hunter / James Spader), Leon the Professional... well, I have over 1000+ DVDs and BluRays. :( Oh, BTW - *DON'T* watch movies with HER just to be with her... if you enjoy them, fine. My wife doesn't like some of the movies I do, so I'll watch them alone.

    Pace to your comfort level. But you SHOULD just move on and date other women. Many years ago, I was driving to a gay club to meet up with 2 women, whom I've already done a threesome with, to drink and dance, etc. Due to shitty weather, they canceled out 15min before I got there. I was bummed out, but continued to the club. I meet a sexy guy, some kissing and things were going to lead to an interesting night. I walked across the dance floor and feel head-over heals with a woman who was standing by the dance area. I completely forgot about that guy (who later texted me "you were INTO a woman LOL" ). Me and this girl talked until the sun came up. I told the canceled out ladies that I was "off the market" the next day before I even made out with this girl. They understood and were cool. The relationship lasted a few too-short months, my heart shattered, took me years to get over her. Depressing too. :(

    The point: Don't wait for something that may never happen. Meet and date others. If she wants to hear your adventures, fine. Be honest if a date goes "ugh" and you haves eyes for someone like her. I *think* she kind of opened the door with "I know couple of straight women who will gladly switch teams for you!" Well, who are these women? Not many people say such things to another, it is possible she was projecting herself... or trying to make yourself feel better.

    Dating is not always easy... add gay to it... then add bi/fluid on top. A lesbian friend of mine *LOVES* seducing straight women, making out with them in the womens room while their BF/dates. She has eyes for my girl, LOL even. This friend of mine is straight forward. She can snag 2~4 straight women a night, hell - we've both gone after the same girl a time or two.

    Meet and setup a date with a woman every week or two. It takes 1-3 dates to KNOW if she is a keeper. Let M know when they don't work out... but DON'T date to fail, okay. Your next love could be a few feet from you, and you're sitting there having a drink, thinking about M.

    PS: I wish EVERYONE who is looking for love (not just sex), good luck. It may hurt sometimes, thou.
     
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  17. rac

    rac Well-Known Member

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    Anonymous - I think when you get to a certain age, your patience get better. And life changes you sometimes and the ex really did a number on me. So in M's case, it's more being cautious than anything.

    Tad - so far, I enjoyed the movies she made me see. Omg, M loves game of thrones so much. We saw that Tom Cruise movie Sunday afternoon and she had to rush home because that show is about to start.

    I think I lost a step or two in the dating game. Maybe one of the reasons why I can't get myself to ask M if she wants to date me. I'm not waiting for something to happen with M (well, not so much anymore, I guess) but I'm also not in a hurry to date anybody else. I met a few but not one I want to date. And that's exactly my worry, that I'll be sitting there and wishing it's M on the other side of the table. So yeah, I haven't given up but more like leaving it to fate, if it happens then I'll be the happiest.
     
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  18. Anonymus

    Anonymus Well-Known Member

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    ambritRAC, sorry for intruding into your personal life... but, I can't control myself! Caution is good.. it saves lot of pain and suffering. You two are becoming my favourite!

    So, she likes games of thrones, how about you? You guys like that white hair girl with dragons or Lena Headey ? I love Silence of the Lambs too :) why don't you two watch Tom Cruise & Meg Ryan's movies this weekend..
     
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  19. MizzLadyPants

    MizzLadyPants Well-Known Member

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    Well If I were you I wouldn't try to anything more than a friendship... then again Im a total pussy lol.
    But I do believe even if that's all you have, it sounds like the start of a great friendship... And the best relationships start out that way ;)
     
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  20. rac

    rac Well-Known Member

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    Anonymous - hey, thanks. I posted on a public forum for advice, intrusion into my life is the least of my worries right now :) I'm just glad there are people listening to me. M loves games of thrones but I haven't seen an episode. So far she hasn't make me watch her tv shows yet.

    I've been working crazy hours lately and she's been busy, too so we couldn't hang out. Which I think, is helping me a bit to get over that crush. We're mostly texting or we talk on the phone. Once she jokingly asked if I've been avoiding her because she made me watch those movies. I almost said I'm avoiding her because she makes me feel all these feels ;) I know, another missed chance. I don't know, I suck when flirting with her. I'm like deer in headlights sometimes, somebody should take my card from flirt nation.

    MizzLadyPants - right now I am focused on developing the friendship and trying not to think about whether or not there's more to that. But it's a daily struggle so I don't know what I'll do or think tomorrow. You know maybe there's still hope for us; like you said, great relationships start that way.
     
    #20

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