My friend is a flirt. And she's killing me.

Discussion in 'Does She Like Me?' started by sallyseton, Aug 18, 2015.

  1. sallyseton

    sallyseton Member

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    So, I have this friend. Brilliant. So adorable. Hilarious. Bisexual. I've only known her while she's been in a relationship with a man, which has been about 4 years, but she dated mostly women before she moved in with him.

    I got out of a long-term relationship about 6 months ago. By long-term, I mean 8 years of my life, with a woman who helped raise my daughter with me. It's been a tough transition and this friend has been there for me non-stop.

    My ex and I used to hang out with this friend and her long-term boyfriend all the time and we were really close with each other. This friend has always been ridiculously flirty with us. One time my ex even asked me if I thought she was coming on to us as a couple and whether I thought she and her boyfriend had an open relationship or something. I was maybe a little naive but I really thought and still to some extent think she is just like this naturally. She's confident and pretty and pretty casual about all things related to sex, so I thought it was just her way of being a friend.

    Last month, she told me she and her boyfriend were separating. I was shocked, but just having gone through what I went through, I was there for her. We've been spending basically every minute together that we don't spend at work. She is over all the time and even spends quality time with my daughter. She's so nice to have around. She just brings levity and laughter to our house. I think I'm falling for her in some immature place in my body. The thing is I know I love her as a friend. I also think she's really sexy. But I don't think she'd be a great girlfriend. She's not right for me in so many ways, including the fact that she has no interest in parenting (just for starters). And I don't think she even likes me like that. But she flirts with me all the time! Touches, these long, eye-contact smiles, asking me about sex, complimenting various parts of my body and my outfits. Sometimes I catch myself almost going in to kiss her or something, because it feels kind of natural with all this contact and intimacy. But she's always done this stuff, even when she was in a committed relationship, and I saw her do it to my ex too right in front of us. And I know straight girls do this with friends too, but then, it's easier, because you always know they're straight and it's just a friend ritual. Because she's queer, it's so impossible to figure this out.

    Is she just a mind-f*cker? Does she like me? Does she have no idea she does these things? How can I find out without saying something awkward that ruins the friendship? Especially when I have no idea what I actually want from her if she is interested. Help!
     
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  2. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

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    What you describe about her and what she is actually doing with you appear to be different. For example, she is there for you and your child a lot since the breakup when she supposedly has no interest in children. Maybe she verbalized as such because she doesn't want to be saddled in with someone with a child. Life just throws you things sometimes and people end up taking on challenges they'd never thought of and loving it.

    I would not let that moment pass again without kissing her. If the kiss does not end up well like you are water off teflon then just say oops you just got caught up in the moment. If it is well received then it is something to explore. It could be too soon for you, she could be too reboundish, but there are so many things out there to worry about that sometimes, if it feels natural to lean in for a kiss, let it happen.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  3. Eloise

    Eloise Well-Known Member

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    This is a hard one. On the one hand, I think she likes you as more than a friend because of her actions. But on the other, I say listen to what she says. How awkward would it be if you kissed her and she pulled away and told you she didn't like you that way? Nah, you should talk to her about it before making a move. Maybe tell her you could see yourself dating her and see what she says.
     
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  4. sallyseton

    sallyseton Member

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    Thanks for the advice. I wish I weren't so terrified of rejection! I'd just go for it and see what happens like greylin said... I kind of wish we could just hook up, and be best friends, and not have any consequences. But I'm too tied down for things like that in my life. Ah how nice that would be! I kind of suspect that if she really likes me, that might be one reason she hasn't gone for it. She rightly suspects it would automatically be more serious than she's probably looking for on the rebound, just because my life is different, and since we are such good friends, it might end badly.

    Maybe I should just have a totally honest conversation about what I think and prepare to deal with whatever embarrassment may be in store for me. I suppose I could tell her I feel really attracted to her, especially when she flirts with me, and I'm not sure it would be a good idea for us to date, but I was wondering if she's ever thought about it?

    Agh, and I can't stop thinking about her. I'm so smitten and trying to pretend I'm not.
     
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  5. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    I think you really need to hit the brakes here and think.

    You have a daughter. Your daughter is going through a break up as much as you are. Now you are letting sexy lady help you take care of daughter. What happens if things don't work out with sexy lady?

    Oh, that is right - daughter will loose another adult caretaker type in her life.

    This is not what your daughter needs right now. Right now, she needs stability. And she is looking to you to provide that stability for her. Stability is letting her grieve the break up and feel like life is a little predictable. Stability is learning that even though things are different now, you will always keep her safe and cared for.

    Stability is not putting her through break up after break up.

    Young, single types have the luxury of going through rebounds. They can sleep around and ride the up down roller coaster with their sexy friends. Parents have it harder. At the very least, they need to protect their kids from repeated disappointments and drama.

    A lot of single parents don't let their kids meet whoever they are dating until the relationship is pretty serious. They get beyond the crush stage, beyond the talking about values stage - before kiddo ever meets the new gf / bf.

    What should you do about sexy lady? Whatever you do, I think you should do it away from your daughter. As in, this lady shouldn't be helping with kiddo and spending a bunch of time with her. The situation sounds really precarious and like it won't end well. Both just out of ltrs. Lots of flirting. You are totally smitten. No real long term potential. So what happens when it all blows up? "Well little Suzy, sexy lady won't be coming over anymore because she was my hot rebound chic. Sorry."

    If you want to get your rebound on and bang some hot women, that is fine. But pick hot women who don't know your kid. And pick hot women that you are not totally smitten with - who won't break your heart if things go south.

    Normally I am not so hard on people. But I really think you need to put yourself in your kid's shoes here. Stop thinking with your infatuation (because that is all it is) and start thinking with your maternal side.
     
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  6. sallyseton

    sallyseton Member

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    Thanks for your thoughts and your words of caution Bluenote. You really got all the complications here and I really appreciate your serious consideration of our best interests.

    I agree with everything you said. Like I said, I'd LIKE to just be casual (if she's even interested), but I know that's not an option when I have an 11 year old to think of. The only reason that I'm considering anything else is that I'm not completely sure yet that it could never work between us. I have this shred of hope that maybe her recent behavior is a sign she is indeed interested in something more, including all the responsibility that would entail. I'm just really looking for anything more to bolster that. I'm sure it's wishful thinking, but you know, being a mom doesn't shut down the part of your brain that fantasizes...

    And just to clarify: Her current presence in my daughter's life has been nothing but a positive thing. My daughter was extremely comfortable with her before my separation, as she was with this friend's boyfriend. They are friends. We've always had and prided ourselves on raising her with a chosen family. And there's no way that I'd let my daughter pick up on anything different or new between us, on the off-chance that we decided to become romantically involved, until we were quite serious and quite sure there was going to be a long-term commitment.
     
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  7. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    She's 11, not 3. She probably already has picked up on it. But you can't keep her from figuring it out. 'Hey, you know how your new mommy figure flirts with me, it's nothing, carry on.'

    If things crash and burn with you two (because, they probably will) your daughter is going to have a hard time missing that sexy lady is no longer around. Or that you are heartbroken and confused.

    Seriously, there is so much denial in your two posts that it is hard to know what to say. Fantasies are nice. Dragging your kid into your ill thought out fantasies- not so much.

    You just got out of a relationship 6 months ago, you are already playing house with a new lady already and you are trying to convince yourself that it can work and that you can protect your daughter from any fallout.

    I don't care if you call it found family or what, but letting your kid get attached to someone who doesn't want kids and who has an ambiguous relationship with you is a bad idea. 'Hey kid, here is an unhealthy rebound found family for you. When this flames out, I will find you some more family.'

    You want to bang this lady and you have let that seriously compromise your judgement. Don't do that.
     
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  8. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

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    I think Sallyseton has been responsible for a long time what with 8 years with someone bringing up a child. She can use some levity in her life and if her friend had been around a lot pre breakup why would there be a problem post breakup? Her friend could just be responsible enough to help, irresponsible enough to keep up her flirty persona but still be responsible enough to not try to make a move.

    Sometimes friends try something out just to try something out and it can be totally awkward and weird to do around friends but sometimes that just get it out of their system. I think the OP has put a lot of thought into this and didn't initiate anything because she doesn't really want flirty woman's type. She wants to have a little fun. Fantasy sometimes make a happy mom and happy mom makes happy kid. TBH if I were her I would be of two minds about it too. I would be more worried that flirty woman gets attached after one kiss and I didn't. Her second post tells it loud and clear, she doesn't want to really get involved, just a hookup. I think even if things happen the only person who would get hurt would not be op or the kid but the flirty woman because she might want the op for serious.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
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  9. sallyseton

    sallyseton Member

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    Thanks, Greylin, for what you said.

    Bluenote, honestly, I was grateful for your first post but your second one is pretty naive. There aren't guarantees in life. Yes, my daughter needs and has stability. No, I wouldn't confuse her by introducing someone in a romantic way if it doesn't seem real or serious (and your insistence that she already picks up on something is ridiculous! You have no idea!). But the idea that relationships end and people may have to move or can't come around as often, but mom will always be here no matter what and we'll get through it--that's actually one of the things you have to teach a kid. Because it's reality! Of course you don't go out seeking things that will end, but even if I met someone completely different, dated her in secret for two years until I was sure she was the one and then introduced her into my kid's life, you know, we could break up too! This just happened after 8 years of a happy family arrangement. The thing is, even friends can drift apart or have fights. I'm not supposed to have friends in my daughter's life in case things turn romantic or our friendship ends?
     
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  10. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    You think your kid hasn't picked up on what is going on and I am the niave one? Hahahaha!

    But seriously, at this point I think we agree to disagree. You seem hell bent on rationalizing that this is ok, so for your kid's sake I hope it doesn't get too ugly.
     
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  11. Spygirl

    Spygirl Well-Known Member

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    On the one hand, you say that things could never work between you -- you're not sure if she would be a good girlfriend -- and then on the other you get defensive and think of it as a possibility. Add to that conundrum, a child who's just recently lived through a breakup.

    The only thing I can say is that you need to figure out deep down what YOU want and how you feel. Sure, you recognize the complications and that she might not be great girlfriend material as you want different things out of life...but being on the receiving end of the type of attention she's giving you...well, that feels good, doesn't it? And nobody should tell you it shouldn't. The rhetorical question then becomes: does this flirting mean that you should take this into a "more than friends" realm?

    Whether she's right for you or wrong for you, I think you need to really think about whether it's her...or the idea of her that's got you so intrigued. And if it is her...whether you're willing to gamble on losing someone who's become such an important part of you and your kid's life. For what it's worth...I'd at least talk about it with her...make a lighthearted joke -- "gosh, we've been spending so much time together, we're becoming like an old married couple, etc. etc." or something along those lines....and see where it goes before taking any action which might show you're not on the same page.
     
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  12. sallyseton

    sallyseton Member

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    Spygirl, thanks for putting it in these terms.

    Maybe you're right. Maybe I'm just in love with the idea of being with her because I'm so comfortable around her and she's right here. How easy it would be if we just started having hot sex and everything else stayed the same and we all lived happily ever after like this.

    The idea of having to start from scratch on the dating scene after it's been so long is really daunting. I'm also older than I was the last time this happened. When I met my last girlfriend I was 20 years old and on a college campus and all the eligible ladies hung out together and went to the same LGBT student center and then the same one or two gay bars and it was just easier to know where to start. Now I'm pushing 30, work full time, have to coordinate co-parenting with not only my daughter's father but now my ex-gf too, and just, ugh, life. It would be so nice if one thing could just be simple. To this point my friendship with this woman in the OP has been simple and lovely. I can't ruin that.

    I'm sorry if I was being defensive.
     
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  13. Spygirl

    Spygirl Well-Known Member

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    You don't owe us any apologies for being defensive....life isn't simple. Which can be a good thing...or a bad thing depending on your perspective. 30 isn't the end of the world, btw....FWIW, the 30's are a great time to begin a new chapter of your life. :)
     
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  14. sallyseton

    sallyseton Member

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    An update for anyone interested:

    After the head-clearing advice in this thread I decided to pull things back and keep things firmly on a friend level. Things have been good and simple, and I've saved any fantasies purely for alone time :) .

    And then, on Sunday night, she kissed me. We kissed. We talked. We decided we can't do this, because we can't just date each other casually, and that's actually what she wants and what I need at this point in life. And now I'm in love-sick agony.

    *edited to add: Love-sick agony? I don't know. Lust-sick agony? Maybe. Who can even tell the difference any more?!!!
     
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    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
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  15. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

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    Love-sick or Lust-sick, when I was in school, I was told my first answer is usually the right one. Getting to the truth about something is hard, especially in yourself. I think neither of you can do this because you know it can be a lot more than you'd bargained for. Perhaps try taking a trip by yourself, cycle down a long stretch of something may bring some clarity.
     
    #15
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  16. sallyseton

    sallyseton Member

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    Well, we are giving it a try. We are going to take it slow and keep it casual and not rush into anything serious. In the end, all the rational thinking and precaution and planning in the world just kept getting trumped by the ridiculous amounts of affection we have for each other and the chemistry between us. We've now spent a dozen hours talking about boundaries with each other and boundaries between us and my daughter, and rules for how often we will see each other, and promises to always put my daughter first and keep her out of this and keep her routines solid. We'd already majorly scaled back how often she came over since school started, and then did it further after the kiss, just kind of naturally. We decided it's for the best to keep our relationship for the weekends without my kiddo and to a minimal amount of calling and texting and hanging out during the week when it's family time. We just had our first successful week of this, and then such an incredible weekend together. So far, so good. Anyway, I don't know where this will lead, but I can't deny that it feels right and good and that I haven't felt this happy or sexy in years. Wish us luck!
     
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  17. greylin

    greylin Well-Known Member

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    Good luck to you both. :)

    Does your daughter miss your friend or she is too deep into her school life to notice?
     
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  18. sallyseton

    sallyseton Member

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    Thank you, greylin! :)

    My daughter is so wrapped up in her first year of middle school and playing soccer and violin and making new cool friends, that she hasn't said a thing about L's new schedule! I don't think she's noticed, because it's happened kind of organically, just through our super busy schedules this fall. However, she's definitely still struggling with the break-up and separation. A couple weeks ago there was a major emotional meltdown because she thought she couldn't invite both me and my ex to her violin recital and she thought she had to choose one of us. :( My poor baby. I quickly and emphatically assured her she could always have both of us whenever she needed both of us. I said, "We can call her to come over right now if you want to see if she's still at work." She was thrilled. We called her and she came over and we had an impromptu family dinner. It was tough to me but it did wonders for my daughter.

    It's been tough. It's been quite a year for her and for me, but we've had a lot of heart to hearts and things seem to be getting a little better all the time.
     
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