Just curious

Discussion in 'General Advice' started by Pi3, Mar 18, 2015.

  1. Pi3

    Pi3 Well-Known Member

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    Can someone convince herself to be gay? very weird question I suppose.
     
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  2. Just Me

    Just Me Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that just being delusional?
     
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  3. Narley

    Narley Well-Known Member

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    Can you elaborate, and maybe give us some context?
     
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  4. Pi3

    Pi3 Well-Known Member

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    I had a conversation with someone who I consider as my mentor, and from that discussion I started to think either if one person could convince herself to be gay. For example someone who always felt something was weird, then one day associated that sensation with a term because it seemed to be lead that way. Over an extensive of time, that person adapted to that new identity. One more thing, that person had bad experience with men, not sexually but in cultural and emotional.

    Please excuse my grammar or spelling, English isn't my first language and I try to be as logical as I can.
     
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  5. Just Me

    Just Me Well-Known Member

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    From what you're saying it sounds like the person was never really straight to begin with then. There's lots of women who go through abuse from a man, then go right back to men... Those people are straight. If you have been abused by a guy and go to a girl, than you were more than likely somewhere on the gay scale to begin with.... Or delusional. You can't convince yourself to be gay.

    In my opinion.
     
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  6. Pi3

    Pi3 Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean delusional in this context?
     
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  7. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    No, people can not convince themselves to be gay or straight.

    People can pretend to be those things. People can settle for less by trying to convince themselves. But there is no evidence that sexuality can be changed and lots of evidence that trying to change it doesn't work and is harmful.

    People who have had 'bad experiences ' (physical or sexual abuse, witnessing DV, traumatic childhoods, etc...) sometimes act out. This can including having lots of casual sexual partners, confusing sex for love, using sex to manipulate people, etc... But acting out is different from having an authentic sexual identity.

    Someone who is acting out and is having heterosexual or homosexual sex with someone they aren't attracted to isn't 'making themselves gay' or 'making themselves straight,' they are just acting out from abuse. And no amount of acting out abuse will make them attracted to these sexual partners.

    To follow up on what @Just Me says about being delusional - trying to have sex or relationships in the hopes of changing ones' sexual orientation doesn't work. Anyone claiming they changed their sexuality was either in denial about it before, or is in denial about it now. Or soon will be caught with a male stripper, (Ted Haggarty, I'm looking at you.)

    So you have to seperate the act (having homosexual sex, or a homosexual relationship) from the emotion (being attracted to the other person, falling in love, etc...)

    It's not very clear what you are asking and the topic is classic troll bait, which is probably why you aren't getting a lot of answers.

    And maybe find a better mentor, if they don't understand something so basic.
     
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  8. Just Me

    Just Me Well-Known Member

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    I mean it literally in the context that it means. Wiki defines it as:

    A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception. Delusions typically occur in the context of neurological ormental illness, although they are not tied to any particular disease and have been found to occur in the context of many pathological states (both physical and mental).


    Meaning (in my opinion) you have to be either straight, gay, or somewhere on the gay scale (bisexual/pansexual/ect.)...

    However a person comes to figure out their sexuality is their personal story, but you cannot convince yourself to be what you're not. It's like pretending to be a different nationality, you can't hide nature.
     
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  9. Pi3

    Pi3 Well-Known Member

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    @Bluenote Thanks, that clears up a lot of thing. On the note of trolling, I thought if I leave out the details then I would get wide range of opinions and I can make up a more informed idea on the subject. haha, such short sighted I am.

    On the note of mentor, I do own too much to the person and so I can't leave. Overall quality, the person is a good person.

    @Just Me Thanks, again on the topic. I see what you are saying now.
     
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  10. pikatan2

    pikatan2 Well-Known Member

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    I suppose sexuality is not a choice.. so personally I don't think so..

    but I did had a great debate when my friend and I were discussing about Dissociative identity disorder (DID) case, in which one of patient is a straight married woman and she has alternate personality who is a lesbian and when they switch personality the "lesbian" would rather have relationship/sex with other woman (or I would assume so since the other personality is a lesbian) and refuse to be romantically/psychically active with the husband.
    PS this patient has other personalities but the lesbian is the more dominant personality compare to the other, so she come out more often than the others.

    Hold up okay I'm not saying, being Lesbian is a mental disorder and the debate between me and my friend was what if the "straight" or "lesbian" sexual orientation was actually brought out by Nurture instead of nature? (I know DID is a lot more than just about the sexual orientation differences but I'm just tryin to fit the story to this conversation)

    welp me and my friend didn't come into any conclusion since... obviously we're no expert beside this patient is a patient of the "Dean" of the medical major shes in, so we don't personally know her. but yeah.....
    I'm not trying to state anything here BUT human sexuality is a lot more complicated than what the science made it to be, especially with Woman since they said that Women are way sexually more fluid than Mens.

    uhm Am I making any sense?? I hope I'm making some sense...
     
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    Last edited: Mar 20, 2015
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  11. Pi3

    Pi3 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it makes sense and thanks for your comment. I think there isn't enough study for female in comparison to male homosexuality (maybe my information is once again failed to update). I agree about women sexuality is much fluid than men. aaaaarrrggg I need a manual!
     
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  12. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like this is more personal to you than 'my mentor made a passing comment and I'm a little curious.'
     
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  13. Spygirl

    Spygirl Well-Known Member

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    I disagree..I think sexuality is fluid, period. Not more so in men than women...however, I think that society's "norms" dictate what people will allow themselves to feel versus how people will honestly identify themselves.

    Moreover, I'm not sure how you're defining the term "gay"...for example, I don't believe that being gay can be pigeonholed into the act of sex, itself. I think that anyone can have sex with anyone. I've had sex with men..and it hasn't been horrible. However, sexual identity...or how people define themselves is much more complex. It's about a connection, something more than the act of sex....which is why I identify as lesbian. So, I think your question presupposes that the choice in being gay equates with the choice one makes in the sexual act....and if that's the case, then sure, one can convince his/herself to sleep with someone of the same or opposite sex purely for physical pleasure.

    However, I do not believe that one can choose the gender with whom one forms a connection, a bond. Can a person choose to live as a gay person? Sure...can a gay person live as a straight person, absolutely. HOWEVER, choosing to live a lie happens all the time. Could I live as a straight person? Absolutely...would I be living an honest life? Not at all.

    Your question, in and of itself as phrased, shows that you lack a basic understanding of what sexual orientation actually is.
     
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  14. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    My gut says that the patient is bisexual, but has compartmentalized different aspects of their sexuality out to different personalities.

    If we were talking about DID and any other aspect of sexuality, it wouldn't be a question 'omg, what is there real identity.' People with DID take different fragments of themselves - promiscuous, risk taking, controlling, craving intimacy and put them into different personalities. When the person integrates, they learn to accept their complexity as a human being 'I'm mostly monogamous, but sometimes I desire risky.'

    We don't sit around and navel gaze.. omg, is their real identity monogamous, or the wild side? We accept that people can like - and be - both authenticly.

    Not sure why the conversation would be any different with sexual orientation. I would guess that when the person integrated, they would still have feelings for both men and women (bisexual). And that they would identify their sexuality somewhere on a spectrum (sexually attracted to both men and women, more romantically attracted to women, etc...)
     
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    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015
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  15. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Patient? OP's mentor surely.
     
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  16. Pi3

    Pi3 Well-Known Member

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    @Bluenote tbh, it is personal. Once upon a time, I was in a friend with benefit relation that by all mean didn't end well and from then on I started to doubt whether I am a lesbian. Anyway, I wasn't sure about my identity when I met the person and helped me through that part of my life.
    On that night after the conversation, I suppose it brought back my doubts and also somehow I might convinced myself. It is true that I can be stubborn as hell if I put my mind to things. That's why I take personal interest in this.

    @Spygirl I did feel the same way as you, but over the course of my life I think it changed. I believe you are talking choose vs innate?
     
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  17. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    No, you did not convice yourself to be gay. No, you did not talk yourself into being gay because of a bad relationship with a man.

    Your mentor is just wrong. There is no scientific evidence that sexuality can be changed and lots of evidence that it can't and that it is harmful to try.

    If people could change their sexuality, there wouldn't be very many gay people. A lot of us went through hell because of our sexuality. I know I did. And I tried dating men for a few years, because I couldn't cope with coming out, being estranged from my family, discrimination. But I wasn't able to will myself to be straight.

    If people can't will themselves to be straight, then they can't will themselves to be gay, either.

    You look up to your mentor and have gotten confused by all this. Just because your mentor is a mentor- doesn't mean that they know everything. In this case, they are wrong about sexuality. Period.
     
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  18. Spygirl

    Spygirl Well-Known Member

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    You've misunderstood me.

    One cannot choose to be gay as much as one cannot choose to be straight. Whether it's nature or nurture or a combination of both, being gay is as unchangeable as eye color.

    That being said -- one can choose the relationships he/she has with another human being. I've dated guys and lived a lie doing so. Does that make me straight? No. Was I miserable? Yes. Could I do it? yes...so many gay people suppress who they are to pander to societal "norms." Just like one can put on fake contact lenses to change eye color, choosing to live honestly is a choice. Choosing who you are or were born to be is not.

    That much, I believe is concrete. However, there's also this notion of bixsexuality...and the whole Kinsey scale thing which says sexuality spans a broad spectrum. If you've doubted you're a lesbian, then maybe you're confusing sex with sexual orientation. And maybe you're also forgetting to realize that bisexuality also exists. Whatever it is, I'm not sure I agree with your perspective because I think you're defining sexuality by the act of sex itself, and that's patently wrong.
     
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  19. Pi3

    Pi3 Well-Known Member

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    @Bluenote how interesting, people always think it was a man :p.

    @Spygirl I have never thought it is only sexual thing, and that is why I get so wrap up with this. Too many variables that can go wrong.
     
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  20. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    You have a lot of attitude considering 1) you aren't being fully truthful about your situation and 2) people are trying to help you.

    Want to resolve your situation? Be honest, quit the 'I'm just curious' and 'my mentor said' bullcrap and get honest about what happened and what you are going through. Otherwise, don't be surprised when people guess wrong and can't help you.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
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