Here a dyke, there a dyke, everywhere a dyke?

Discussion in 'Surveys and Questionnnaires' started by Zarco Nimmo, Nov 1, 2015.

  1. Zarco Nimmo

    Zarco Nimmo Active Member

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    With public acceptance of homosexuality increasing over the past fifty years, it has become easier for women who love women to be unafraid to declare their love before the world. At the same time, as other women see many of their friends, neighbours and family come out of the closet, many of them have come to wonder whether they themselves are not as straight as they thought they were. Many a woman who has hitherto considered herself heterosexual sees happy, healthy, attractive female couples in the media and in her daily wanderings, and all these understated yet unabashed displays of lesbianism stir feelings within her - feelings of a need that is not being met in her social dealings, a need that, she slowly comes to realize, can be satisfied only by the society of women who also know this need, and specifically by the companionship in spirit, mind and body of one other woman. It may take her a while to come to this realization, and she may resist it at first, but if she is honest with herself she will embrace her true nature and act joyfully and shamelessly upon it.

    Now this is what I wonder: is this need for comprehensive feminine companionship present in the entire female sex? Does every woman harbour it, whether she acknowledges it or not? Would every woman act upon it if only she recognized it as vital to her happiness? Put plainly, are all women lesbians? And should we be pleased or appalled by this possibility?
     
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  2. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that all women are lesbians, anymore than I think that all women are straight. I don't think that seeing happy lesbian couples turns women gay, anymore than seeing happy hetero couples turns women straight.

    I think a good chunk of sexual orientation is biological, not learned or chosen.
     
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  3. Zarco Nimmo

    Zarco Nimmo Active Member

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    I didn't suggest otherwise. In fact, I venture to suggest the following:
    • all women are biologically predisposed to pursue romantic attachments with their own sex;
    • those women who seek heterosexual relationships do so only because they have learned to do so;
    • they have learned to do so because they are largely ignorant of the alternative, or have been discouraged from pursuing it; and
    • if they had more knowledge of the alternative and the freedom to explore it, they would have discovered that it suited them far better than their learned behaviour did.
    In short, I suggest that "straight" women are really lesbians who haven't gotten in touch with their true nature. That's what I mean when I ask whether all women are lesbians - a delightful notion or a dreadful one, depending on your point of view.
     
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  4. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. I think to say that all my straight friends who are happily married to men are really just lesbians who were socially programed to be straight is 1) not accurate to their specific circumstances and 2) is very patronizing.

    Many of my straight friends had very liberal upbringings, had close gay and lesbian friends, etc... and- are still straight.

    And the patronizing bit - you make big blanket statements about other women's sexuality as though you know better and they are somehow naive/ blinded/ limited. Like their sexuality is the result of some kind of damage, or compromise and YOU know better than them what their true sexuality is.

    Gay, straight, bi or whatever- it is damaging and disrespectful to invalidate someone else's sexuality. To presume that their sexuality is not authentic and rather, is the result of some kind of damage, flaw, or compromise.

    You would be pretty pissed if someone who didn't know you tried to tell you that you were a lesbian because it was just a phase, you hadn't had good sex with the right guy, that you were just jumping on the lesbian band wagon, etc...

    Shockingly, many straight women are thoughtful and self aware about their sexuality and- are still straight. You don't have some marvelous insight that the poor little sheep have missed.

    I doubt that you will change your mind- you have convinced yourself of this theory and dug in. And maybe it makes you happy- all women are gay!! I know what everyone's true sexuality is and they are just blind!!!

    This thread is stupid. Two people arguing about what other people's sexuality is. You want to know what someone else's sexuality is? Ask them. And then respect the answer that they give you and don't presume to know better.
     
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  5. Emm

    Emm Well-Known Member

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    If they have more knowledge and freedom? You're kidding right? I mean you can't actually be serious with this inflammatory theory.

    It's like actually believing the 'spaghetti girl' theory, that all girls are straight until wet. Maybe they just haven't watched enough lesbian TV shows or met the right girl yet.

    @Bluenote was right, this thread is stupid. It makes about as much sense as suggesting every dog owner really doesn't like dogs but can't get a cat because they haven't seen enough people with cats appear proud enough yet.
     
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  6. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    Ahh. I see that the op's profile says he is a guy. Great. So we have a guy man-splaining female sexuality to us. That's useful.
     
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  7. Spygirl

    Spygirl Well-Known Member

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    This is such a bad attempt at intellectual discussion that the OP cannot be taken seriously. The OP portends to be all "academic" in his assessment or findings of how lesbianism derives, but it's probably to get his jollies off that all women will love women in a sexual manner if given the opportunity. He goes so far as to say that those woman who seek "heterosexual relationships do so only because they've learned to do so."

    Without social constraints, people would just be people showing affection and loving whomever regardless of gender without fear of a judgmental society. Physical pleasure feels good. And I would go so far as to say that sex...the people with whom one has sex...do not indicate one's sexual orientation. Anyone can have sex with anyone, but it does not create an identity. Moreover, relationships in a societal form are those created by society -- heterosexual monogamous relationships arguably are a creation of an institution and were designed to propagate property rights, not love. Pigeonholing all women as lesbians -- if they were allowed to be free -- is as dangerous as the crap the religious right is spewing.

    That being said, not all women are lesbians. Companionship, intimacy and understanding between two women does not make a lesbian relationship any more than random sex with a woman makes a lesbian relationship. Some women connect with men and not women, regardless of what society tells them is right and what is wrong. That's not a bad thing.

    My suggestion to you, sir: educate yourself before you try to have an intellectual discussion on things which are apparently beyond your intelligence level. The flaw in all of your argument is that you're looking at everything being defined by sex....and sexual orientation is defined by much, much more than that. And if you're suggesting that heterosexuality is "learned behavior"...well, then I venture to say that most scientists/biologists would disagree.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
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  8. Zarco Nimmo

    Zarco Nimmo Active Member

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    Ouch. I don't have any excuse for posting what I posted. I'm now embarrassed by it. I acknowledge all your points about human relations, which of course are self-evident to any thoughtful person, and I accept without reservation the kicking you've all given me. I apologize for posting my misbegotten essay, and I promise you I won't write anything like that here ever again.
     
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  9. Bluenote

    Bluenote Well-Known Member

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    You sound somewhat young, so I am going to try to go a little easy on you here.

    Your posts in this thread here, most of your other posts on this site and your (cringe worthy) tumbler site - seem to be written with the intent to manipulate. If it was just one post, maybe it could be explained away. But this isn't just an off the cuff post - I mean - you have created a whole freaking tumbler site full of this drivel.

    So why are you running around pontificating about how wonderful lesbianism is, when you don't seem to really know much about lesbians? (Btw, that is how to use big words without sounding like you are trying too hard).

    I don't know the answer to that - maybe you don't even know the answer to that. But your posts do come off as manipulative. Like you would come on here, quote some lesbian sexual theory hocus pocus and - you would be the cool lesbro, with lots of lesbians accepting you into the pack and thinking you were such a cool ally.

    If you really understood all the stuff that you have written about the beauty of lesbian relationships, then you wouldn't cheapen that beauty by using it to try and get stuff (friends, recognition, wanting to seem super smart, a sexual thirll, whatever).

    And - it doesn't work that way. Trying to manipulate people by telling them what you think they want to hear (pro lesbian proclamations, groveling apologies) is not cool. That and many people can see through manipulations, so they tend to backfire (like this one did).

    Second, trying to use sexuality of any kind to manipulate someone, is not cool. Sexuality - be it someone's orientation, their kinks, their history, their status as an abuse survivor - those are all powerful things. Someone who has fought hard to live true to their orientation, or has been through a lot of shit to recover from abuse, doesn't deserve to have that manipulated by someone else. Using someone's sexuality as some kind of currency to get something from them is bullshit behavior. It is hurtful and degrading. It is a violation of trust. And if it is big enough and taken far enough, it can really, really fuck someone up.

    So don't do it. Not just because you are embarrassed to get a public beat down. But because you don't want to be that jerk, that guy who uses sexuality to get stuff from women and degrades them and their sexuality in the process.

    Thirdly, lesbians don't actually need or want your approval. There might of been a day back in the 1980s (1950s?) when a guy supporting gay women was a big deal and this really welcomed thing. But those days have long passed. Lesbians and gay people fought for their rights - and got them. (Ok, some rights are still a work in progress, but a lot of major battles have been won.) We don't need and aren't going to go gaga over little crumbs of acceptance.

    You think lesbians are cool and lesbianism is beautiful? That's nice - now, do you expect that you are going to get a medal and tickets to the Ellen show?

    Now, I know that I said that I was going to go easy on you. And maybe this doesn't seem easy. But hard would have been just ignoring your latest post. Because if you actually read, and think about the ass kicking you got in this thread, the ass kicking that I am giving you in this post - you could learn something. Examine your motives for posting here, for creating your tumbler site. Were you trying to be the cool lesbro? Do you get off on the thought of two women together? Were you trying to impress everyone with your handle on feminist theory?

    Then own the parts of your motives that were messed up. Don't just apologize, but actually learn and grow, become a better, less manipulative person because of this.

    You use a lot of fancy words trying to sound super smart. But there is a difference between sounding super smart and being super smart. And maybe you can never be super smart - I mean, everyone has a ceiling. But you can become wise. Listen to people, treat them with respect and learn from them. It takes time, but that is how to gain wisdom.
     
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  10. Emm

    Emm Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Greg

    Greg Well-Known Member

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    Oyyyyy...dude, as a member of your gender on the outside, yeah, first of all, be discreet in the first place, and watch the presumptions. And for God's sake, please DON'T use the freaking word "dyke." It's offensive, even to us male trans-lesbians.
    Women—especially gay ones—are already going to be a touch wary of men in the community. What with the proliferating stereotype that all guys want is sex, and how we especially like women with each other, posts such as yours make it hard for them to look past this. Like one of them said, getting your "jollies" in these suppositions. And...well, let me put it to you this way. Suppose you read a woman's post about how all men are similar in this way, whether they have a predisposition to homosexuality, or all alike in any other way. Might I say you'd be a touch put-off? And rightly so? I sure as effing heck would. Just something to think about. They're all different, we're all different. And guys who make blanket judgments about all women are no better than women who do the same thing to us.
     
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